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 Post subject: muscles?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Location: Miami, Florida, USA
I believe relaxation and flexibility are of utmost importance. I'm still working on both of them as well as coordination.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:24 pm 
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Huh ? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
here is my saying... and welcome to correct me if you think I am wrong..

You know I actually add weights to my keys...for last 15 years.....this is differnt to your adding weights to your forarm or some kind of weight training. You can call me a crazy weird pianist.

Up to these days, I can still play fast and relaxed, as I walked to a paino show room, I soon relalized, my "finger strengths/arm, trainings resulted in a great benefits.. But the cordination do come first before power. Another word, "Power without control, its nothing....."


Can you imagine, if I took off these weights(only apprx.10% heavier than standard full size yamaha grand), you reckon my hands will play faster?????.....perhaps one day, I will take it off to see.

The best way, is to have ANOTHE pianio with a ligter touch....and you have the both world.
FF and PPP playing......practice smarter not harder...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:36 pm 
Johnmar78...how do you weight your piano keys?! I assume that this means they are harder to press down? Can I do this on a Yamaha clavinova?

People have mentioned that relaxation is more important then strength, which I have found to be true up to a certain extent, but it doesn't seem to work for me on pieces where either hand is constantly playing over a wide range - e.g. Chopin's op10 no1, or the last 5 min or Liszt remininscences of Norma (i.e. 5 min of fast arpeggios and scales). In the Chopin study, I start out relaxed, but by the end my arm is killing me! I find that in order to hit the notes you need to have a certain amount of tension in your muscles. Maybe I've got it all wrong?! From watching a recent video of Earl Wild play Ravel's Gaspard, he looks so relaxed it seems he might fall of his chair, yet this piece is horrendous?? :?:

Andy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:35 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
[quote="IsaacNewton981"]Johnmar78...how do you weight your piano keys?! I assume that this means they are harder to press down? Can I do this on a Yamaha clavinova?

People have mentioned that relaxation is more important then strength, which I have found to be true up to a certain extent, but it doesn't seem to work for me on pieces where either hand is constantly playing over a wide range - e.g. Chopin's op10 no1, or the last 5 min or Liszt remininscences of Norma (i.e. 5 min of fast arpeggios and scales). In the Chopin study, I start out relaxed, but by the end my arm is killing me! I find that in order to hit the notes you need to have a certain amount of tension in your muscles. Maybe I've got it all wrong?! From watching a recent video of Earl Wild play Ravel's Gaspard, he looks so relaxed it seems he might fall of his chair, yet this piece is horrendous?? :?:


Good question. No you may not increase the weight on clavonoa, unless you want to take a risk and open it up----not worth a time.

Think of olympians, they are super fit and can do many laps when relaxed. They can push to higher limit too than average person. When more power and endurance is reserved in your body. I am sure its easier for you to excute as compared to an average person.
I am reasonable stong but also relaxed. because, less % muscle mass is used to produce a same effort as compred to an average person. anotherword, you have to be fit with trainning too.
I hope tis makes sence.

Yesterday. I played the clavonia at my parents place....so as my kids... It was so easy to play the same etude as compared to Grand(my one). again,We all find it requires less effort, as speaking from a 7 years old child....I am sure I have proved my point, at least to my own findings...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
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Personally, the lighter the action is, the better.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:15 am 
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Location: Germany
Putting additional weights on the keys change not only the pressure to hit the key. It changes also the weight at which a key goes up again.

But much more important, it makes the thing more tenacious because of the added inertia. But who likes to have a more stringy action? In my opinion, putting additional weight makes more trouble than that it helps. Also for very soft playing, I can imagine that additional weight is counterproductive.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:27 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
I have to add, that mentally concentrate on the touch that you have to imagine that your arm/body natural weight is droped(contacted) to the moment of sound projection to the the keys. This requires a certain of relaxzation in muscle and your reflex. By all means, speed is genertated thru relaxzation. Once the key is stiked(fallen)-relax.

In piano playing, 80% (estimate) is your natural weight and 20% is muscle power. You will expore this thru a period of slow "natural falling" practice. TRUST ME>And thanks for reading.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:38 am 
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Location: Germany
johnmar78 wrote:
I have to add, that mentally concentrate on the touch that you have to imagine that your arm/body natural weight is droped(contacted) to the moment of sound projection to the the keys. This requires a certain of relaxzation in muscle and your reflex. By all means, speed is genertated thru relaxzation. Once the key is stiked(fallen)-relax.

In piano playing, 80% (estimate) is your natural weight and 20% is muscle power. You will expore this thru a period of slow "natural falling" practice. TRUST ME>And thanks for reading.


You are completely right IMHO. But what has this to do with your proposed idea to put additional lead in the keys to make them heavier than normal? The drawbacks of this are higher than the benefits, so I see it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:18 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
[
In piano playing, 80% (estimate) is your natural weight and 20% is muscle power. You will expore this thru a period of slow "natural falling" practice. TRUST ME>And thanks for reading.[/quote]

You are completely right IMHO. But what has this to do with your proposed idea to put additional lead in the keys to make them heavier than normal? The drawbacks of this are higher than the benefits, so I see it.[/quote]

I suppose, that add a bit more power on that "20%", more resevation the better. But again, only a little extra weight.

You must come to play my piano when you visiting australia. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:21 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
johnmar78 wrote:
[
In piano playing, 80% (estimate) is your natural weight and 20% is muscle power. You will expore this thru a period of slow "natural falling" practice. TRUST ME>And thanks for reading.


You are completely right IMHO. But what has this to do with your proposed idea to put additional lead in the keys to make them heavier than normal? The drawbacks of this are higher than the benefits, so I see it.[/quote]

I suppose, that add a bit more power on that "20%", more resevation the better. But again, only a little extra weight.

You must come to play my piano when you visiting australia. :lol:[/quote]


one last last very important thing that people always get CONFUSED.

There is no such thing as total relaxzation or no tension at playing; but rather an art of EASE OF tension on playing. This is something we all have to master and explore thru .......

remember..ease of tension...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:36 pm 
Work on the Chopin Etudes. Absolutely builds endurance!
Randy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:53 pm 
I read an article on the internet about using the "gravity drop" technique. It involves using gravity to play forte passages with the arms and hands. I've never used this technique myself because it would take too much time and effort to "re-learn" piano playing with this technique. Also, I'm afraid I'll be learning something that might give me some bad playing habits. The author stated that using gravity with the arms and hands increases stamina with long performances. Has anyone used this technique before or believe it is effective?
Randy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:02 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
ChopinLover wrote:
I read an article on the internet about using the "gravity drop" technique. It involves using gravity to play forte passages with the arms and hands. I've never used this technique myself because it would take too much time and effort to "re-learn" piano playing with this technique. Also, I'm afraid I'll be learning something that might give me some bad playing habits. The author stated that using gravity with the arms and hands increases stamina with long performances. Has anyone used this technique before or believe it is effective?
Randy


yes, I further improved with op53 and refine the gravity -weight technique..and it worked. another reduction in tension....so as other chopins etudes. Its an fine art...........to master this technique...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
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Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
Chopin's 25/1 and 25/12 Etudes are also great for building strength (or force through coordination!) in both hands.

The 10/1 Etude is really only good for the right hand.

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