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 Post subject: Scarlatti sonatas E-Major.L30; E Major L23;b minor L49
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:02 pm 
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Jntroduction and Scarlatti Sonatas

Scarlatti - Sonata in E major, L.430 / K.531
Scarlatti - Sonata in E major, L.23 / K.380
Scarlatti - Sonata in B minor, L.449 / K.27


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:41 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
Did you use the Kirkpatrick numbering or the Longo numbering? When were these recorded? What kind of piano?

Like your Bach, these are well played, in my opinion, however I am not too familiar with Scarlatti (partly because he wrote so much music for the keyboard)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:42 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
opps, sorry I did not notice the heading to your post. That answers my first question.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:32 am 
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Hi Raymond, Nice playing on all three. I especially liked the first two. ( I'm an E-Major kind of girl)
The second piece is one of Scarlatti's popular sonatas, right? I've heard it before even though I haven't listened to very much Scarlatti.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:15 pm 
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I especially liked the introduction, how about a PianoSociety internet radio station? :lol:

To be serious, I can't make any constructive comments besides saying that I also found the B minor sonata a bit less inspired than the other two, but still quite enjoyable.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:01 am 
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Lovely played, Raymond. In contrast with other commentors, I liked the last one best, perhaps because it is more subdued and 'deeper' than the average Scarlatti Sonatas (I believe the slow ones stand out from the crowd musically, not that I've heard them all ...). All are played with great skill, authority, and warmth. Bravo !

Shame about the off-tune piano in that famous E major sonata. I guess these were recorded over some span of time ?

I don't really know what to do with the spoken introduction... Yes we are planning to revive the Radio Show (for those of you who were around in early days) but even then I would not know how to make use of it, unless we were to combine this bit of text, together with these three sonatas, into one track. Technically, that is an option although it goes against the normal way we organize things, so I think it is not a good idea.

I will put these recordings on the site over the weekend or perhaps earlier when I have some time.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:24 pm 
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I am in trouble here... perhaps someone can help out ?

According to the title, the sonatas posted here are

Longo 30 - E Major
Longo 23 - E major
Longo 47 - B major

Now on this site we use the Kirkpatrick numbering (dont' ask why...). So I found this translation list on the web : http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/scarlattid/lists/longo.html, which says:

L. 23 K. 380 P. 483 E Major Andante comodo
L. 30 K. 82 P. 25 F Major -
L. 49 K. 234 P. 286 G minor Andante

I believe this to be correct as it is consistent with my CD SheetMusic CD. Only the L.23 is what is actually played. The sonatas presented as L.30 and L.49 are not what they claim to be.... and this is already wrong on the CD listing (http://cdbaby.com/cd/smullyan). So which numbers are they ???
Any help appreciated.

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 Post subject: Corrections
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:47 pm 
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techneut wrote:
I am in trouble here... perhaps someone can help out ?
Dear Chris. I am sorry for my numerical goofs! L30 should have been L430, which is K531, and L49 should be L449, which is K173
Raymond

According to the title, the sonatas posted here are

Longo 30 - E Major
Longo 23 - E major
Longo 47 - B major

Now on this site we use the Kirkpatrick numbering (dont' ask why...). So I found this translation list on the web : http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/scarlattid/lists/longo.html, which says:

L. 23 K. 380 P. 483 E Major Andante comodo
L. 30 K. 82 P. 25 F Major -
L. 49 K. 234 P. 286 G minor Andante

I believe this to be correct as it is consistent with my CD SheetMusic CD. Only the L.23 is what is actually played. The sonatas presented as L.30 and L.49 are not what they claim to be.... and this is already wrong on the CD listing (http://cdbaby.com/cd/smullyan). So which numbers are they ???
Any help appreciated.


Last edited by rsmullyan on Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:00 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Lovely played, Raymond. In contrast with other commentors, I liked the last one best, perhaps because it is more subdued and 'deeper' than the average Scarlatti Sonatas (I believe the slow ones stand out from the crowd musically, not that I've heard them all ...). All are played with great skill, authority, and warmth. Bravo !

Shame about the off-tune piano in that famous E major sonata. I guess these were recorded over some span of time ?

I don't really know what to do with the spoken introduction... Yes we are planning to revive the Radio Show (for those of you who were around in early days) but even then I would not know how to make use of it, unless we were to combine this bit of text, together with these three sonatas, into one track. Technically, that is an option although it goes against the normal way we organize things, so I think it is not a good idea.

I will put these recordings on the site over the weekend or perhaps earlier when I have some time.


Dear Chris.Before you decide not to include my introductions,please wait untill
you get my whole CD. I would be very sorry to lose them, since they really add
something to the CD as a whole.A certain imtimacy would be lost without them.
Raymond


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 Post subject: Re: Reply
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:47 am 
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rsmullyan wrote:
Dear Chris.Before you decide not to include my introductions,please wait untill
you get my whole CD. I would be very sorry to lose them, since they really add
something to the CD as a whole.A certain imtimacy would be lost without them.

Yes I appreciate that. The problem is that on PS we do not have the concept of a collection or CD. Pieces are grouped by composer and opus, not by the order on a CD. I understand it would be your preference to have the entire CD on one page by itself but we'll need to re-think our design for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Corrections
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:52 am 
Quote:
So which numbers are they ???


Chris,

Track 8 is the b minor sonata L.449 / K.27
Track 6 is the E major sonata L.430 / K.531

It seems some "4s" dropped in the CD cover.

hth,
alf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:55 am 
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Great ! Thanks a bunch for sorting that out :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:49 pm 
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These three are up the site now. Great playing !

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti sonatas E-Major.L30; E Major L23;b minor L49
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:49 pm 
[quote="rsmullyan"]Jntroduction and Scarlatti Sonatas

Well played, and very interesting sound and phrasing.
It seems that between harpsichord and modern piano you have choose.... a fortepiano.
This sound (that you wanted, surely) has the same suggesting delicacy of the instruments of late XIIX century, as the average phrasing . Rare and particular approach, but IMHO very coherent and convincing.

All best,
Sandro.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti sonatas E-Major.L30; E Major L23;b minor L49
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:57 pm 
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Sandro Bisotti wrote:
rsmullyan wrote:
Jntroduction and Scarlatti Sonatas

Well played, and very interesting sound and phrasing.
It seems that between harpsichord and modern piano you have choose.... a fortepiano.
This sound (that you wanted, surely) has the same suggesting delicacy of the instruments of late XIIX century, as the average phrasing . Rare and particular approach, but IMHO very coherent and convincing.

All best,
Sandro.


Sandro, I recorded these on a modern Steinway.
Raymond


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti sonatas E-Major.L30; E Major L23;b minor L49
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:52 pm 
> Sandro, I recorded these on a modern Steinway.

Sorry, misunderstanding by my fault. I've no doubt on your instrument (an excellent
modern piano, as you confirm). But, some pianists use it like an harpsichord, others as
a modern orchestra, others as computer keyboard.... :D
The sound you choose to obtain in these pieces seems to me a fortepiano sound.
Sweet, intimate and also dry, without explosion in dinamics and pedalling.
IMHO a very fascinating choice (or casual but equally interesting), in a difficult contest: which is the correct sound for harpsichord music (but also classic and romantic music, which was not conceived
for instruments so similar to modern pianos) on modern piano?


All best,
Sandro.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:02 pm 
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As someone at least must have seen, I did include the entire translation table for Longo versus Kirkpatrick and even Pestelli at the bottom of the Scarlatti Sonata page. :evil: Hell of a job.

I really love the K.27 sonata and my reference is really something as it is the live video of Michelangeli. One of the very rare videos of him playing live and but for that he plays it 50% faster than you do, it is absolutely perfect. Not only note perfect but also all notes are equally cared about and the fast double notes are equally loud. But we should not compare with Michelangeli at Piano Society :D. Or anywhere. You play this sonata really well and even though it can be a bit more even here and there, it is really enjoyable to listen to. Much more difficult than it sounds.

The second (K.380) is rather famous too and many pianists have this is the recital (even Horowitz played it as in the famous Moscow concert). You play it very well too but the untuned piano disturbs a bit but you catch the mood in it which is very important.

I have very little experience with K.531 but is sounds like you pull this off best of them all. Perhaps it is me who does not know it well enough but all ornaments are executed really well and there is no problems or hesitations in your playing.

Overall, very well done!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:10 pm 
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robert wrote:
As someone at least must have seen, I did include the entire translation table for Longo versus Kirkpatrick and even Pestelli at the bottom of the Scarlatti Sonata page. :evil: Hell of a job.

I really love the K.27 sonata and my reference is really something as it is the live video of Michelangeli. One of the very rare videos of him playing live and but for that he plays it 50% faster than you do, it is absolutely perfect. Not only note perfect but also all notes are equally cared about and the fast double notes are equally loud. But we should not compare with Michelangeli at Piano Society :D. Or anywhere. You play this sonata really well and even though it can be a bit more even here and there, it is really enjoyable to listen to. Much more difficult than it sounds.

The second (K.380) is rather famous too and many pianists have this is the recital (even Horowitz played it as in the famous Moscow concert). You play it very well too but the untuned piano disturbs a bit but you catch the mood in it which is very important.

I have very little experience with K.531 but is sounds like you pull this off best of them all. Perhaps it is me who does not know it well enough but all ornaments are executed really well and there is no problems or hesitations in your playing.

Overall, very well done!


Dear Robert. I am very much a Michelangeli fan, bt I think his playing of this
sonata is atrocious! Insanely too fast--all the beauty is lost . I like the recording of Jose Iturbi, as well as many others, who play it at a reasomable tempo.

Raymond


Last edited by rsmullyan on Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:33 pm 
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robert wrote:
As someone at least must have seen, I did include the entire translation table for Longo versus Kirkpatrick and even Pestelli at the bottom of the Scarlatti Sonata page. :evil: Hell of a job.

Heh yes, I remembered that after I had looked it up elsewhere on the web.... :oops:
Never seen or heard anybody refer to the Pestelli numbering. Bad enought that we have two in use already.I just hope to god some silly sod will not go and renumber all of Bach and Mozart ...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:43 pm 
>Dear Robert. I am very much a Michelangeli fan,

I too.


> bt I think his playing of this
sonata is atrocious! Insanely too fast--all the beauty is lost .

I agree at 80%. I find excellent Gilels live recording (Lugano, one of his last concerts,
there is a "Hermitage" CD) of this and other sonatas of that recital.

Sandro.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:14 am 
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rsmullyan wrote:
robert wrote:
As someone at least must have seen, I did include the entire translation table for Longo versus Kirkpatrick and even Pestelli at the bottom of the Scarlatti Sonata page. :evil: Hell of a job.

I really love the K.27 sonata and my reference is really something as it is the live video of Michelangeli. One of the very rare videos of him playing live and but for that he plays it 50% faster than you do, it is absolutely perfect. Not only note perfect but also all notes are equally cared about and the fast double notes are equally loud. But we should not compare with Michelangeli at Piano Society :D. Or anywhere. You play this sonata really well and even though it can be a bit more even here and there, it is really enjoyable to listen to. Much more difficult than it sounds.

The second (K.380) is rather famous too and many pianists have this is the recital (even Horowitz played it as in the famous Moscow concert). You play it very well too but the untuned piano disturbs a bit but you catch the mood in it which is very important.

I have very little experience with K.531 but is sounds like you pull this off best of them all. Perhaps it is me who does not know it well enough but all ornaments are executed really well and there is no problems or hesitations in your playing.

Overall, very well done!


Dear Robert. I am very much a Michelangeli fan, bt I think his playing of this
sonata is atrocious! Insanely too fast--all the beauty is lost . I like the recording of Jose Iturbi, as well as many others, who play it at a reasomable tempo.

Raymond

I must admit that I am somewhat thrilled that Michelangeli for once seems to take chances here and the let out something of the beast he caged in control long time ago ;). Musically, what I like is that the top melody gets connected in this tempo in another way which I think makes sense. Also, it is well known that Scarlatti was a harpichord virtuoso so it is possible he played it this way too.

But, a matter of taste of course and do not take this as a bad critique on your recording from my side as it is not. I have listened to your recording many times now and really like it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:15 am 
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techneut wrote:
robert wrote:
As someone at least must have seen, I did include the entire translation table for Longo versus Kirkpatrick and even Pestelli at the bottom of the Scarlatti Sonata page. :evil: Hell of a job.

Heh yes, I remembered that after I had looked it up elsewhere on the web.... :oops:
Never seen or heard anybody refer to the Pestelli numbering. Bad enought that we have two in use already.I just hope to god some silly sod will not go and renumber all of Bach and Mozart ...

Now, wouldn't that be fun! I start off right away and do this as my next coming Piano Society project. 8)

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