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 Post subject: Chopin again with Bach as dessert
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:17 pm 
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Dear Piano lovers,

A few weeks ago you people made me feel obliged to take the Chopin Waltz Op 34 no 2 more serriously. I hope i did with the recording is made this afternoon.

I also include another Waltz that i felt i could take more serious. It is the Op 70 No 2.

As a dessert, i send you a preview of a Bach recording that i am working on. BWV831 (French Overture). I send you the last part, the Echo. I am still working on it, so it si not perfect but it will give an impression.

Would be nice to hear your comments again.....

Greetings from Holland
-- Peter Schuttevaar


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 Post subject: Opus 70 No 2
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:20 pm 
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I didn't find a way to attach multiple files.

So here is the Op 70 No 2.

Greetings from Peter Schuttevaar


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 Post subject: Bach Echo
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:21 pm 
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And here is the Bach Echo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:56 pm 
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Good to see you are back again with some better recordings :D
As for multiple attachments, please refer to my posting about this on

http://server3.pianosociety.com/new/php ... .php?t=900

The Chopin 30-4 is a lot better. The piano sounds much nicer and the sloppyness is gone. If it wasn't so impatient (still) this would be rather good. You seem unwilling to take your time and apply some rubato and dynamics. The tempo is also too fast for a Waltz maked 'Lento'.
Some apparent reading mistakes that need attention:
- You leave out the upper voice in bar 8 and similar.
- You play an extra f in the LH in bar 63 and similar bars.
- You play an extra LH chord in bar 100 and similar bars.
The E Major section (bars 177-188) is beautifully done, as if the sun suddenly breaks through. If only you'd apply that same sensitivity to the entire waltz, it would make all the difference !

The Op.70-2 is not quite as good yet. You should really listen back with the score, as there are a significant number of reading mistakes, as well as some slips (no horrible ones though). And you should do more with dynamics - there is hardly a contrast between piano and forte.

The Bach Echo is technically there, except for some tiny mistakes, but (again) terribly impatient and short of charm and articulation. I know you are a busy person but really, you should take your time to enjoy the music.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:04 pm 
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Hello Chris,

Well thanks for the review and for the careful listening, as well as for the compliments.

About the reading errors....
The thing is that i put aside the text as soon as i know the piece by heart. And i know a piece by heart as soon as i know what i play. I follow this "procedure" ever since i started playing the piano. The first recording of the Chopin Waltz was a reading. This latest one isn't. It seems though, that after putting aside the text, some strange alterations happen. Like when i started to play a whole Es major section of a Chopin etude in minor (and two teachers at the conservatory not noticing it). So i will go back to the text and look at the "reading" errors.

As for the impatience......
It seems that i often appear to be hurried or hasty in the things i do, whereas my own perception is one of a series of actions, taken in an almost serene tranquility. I managed to bridge that gap (of perception) in my professional activities. I see no reason why i could not bridge that gap in my piano playing also (And i want to, since i intend to start playing the piano on a more professional level in the near future).

[ As an aside, and as a matter of taste: i like Chopin better when he is played in a straightforward manner, not letting the ladies plunge into tears over the romantique of it, so to speak. ]

Greetings from Peter Schuttevaar

PS: Hé Chris, lately i noticed that we live only a few km apart. Nice to have a drink together one day?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Hello, again. I listened to both Waltzes. Op. 34/2: I agree that your tempo is still too fast, like you are in a hurry to get somewhere. I know everybody has their own style, (I have been known to play at different tempos too) and you play well, but if you only did this one thing, it would be so much better. Also apply more dynamics (pp would help.) You played the pretty section between 3:40 and 4:10 very nicely. I liked it a lot.

70/2: Tempo was good, need more dynamics and sometime your grace notes were a bit slow, but that's just a style thing. Also, watch the tied notes.

Quote:
not letting the ladies plunge into tears over the romantique of it, so to speak.

Why not? I love plunging into tears over Chopin. Okay, you're a man and you don't do that kind of thing. But I heard plenty of rubato in the 70/2, which was good, so you have some romance in you after all.

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:19 am 
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pepasch wrote:
About the reading errors....
The thing is that i put aside the text as soon as i know the piece by heart. And i know a piece by heart as soon as i know what i play. I follow this "procedure" ever since i started playing the piano.

Seems like a dangerous procedure, guaranteed to produce readings that are wrong on all manner of details. There are more people working this way, and the result is never very good if one wants to respect the notes and directions as written.

pepasch wrote:
As for the impatience......
It seems that i often appear to be hurried or hasty in the things i do, whereas my own perception is one of a series of actions, taken in an almost serene tranquility.

That may be so, but there is nothing serene or tranquil in your performances as yet. Or our perception of them :wink: Except that E major part in the Op.43 waltz which suddenly caught the spirit.

pepasch wrote:
[ As an aside, and as a matter of taste: i like Chopin better when he is played in a straightforward manner, not letting the ladies plunge into tears over the romantique of it, so to speak. ]

A valid point. Nothing worse than swooningly saccharine and sentimental Chopin. On the other hand, Chopin without any emotion and romantic feeling is equally undesirable. The truth is to be found somewhere in between, and there is ample room for a multitude of satisfactory interpretations.

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:37 pm 
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Oh well then Folks,

Here is a version for the late evening. Take your hankerchiefs out and listen to the ....

.... slow version of the Waltz, with pianissimo, rubato and all.

Greetings from Holland.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:48 pm 
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It sounds a bit more sensitive with some rubato, but still rather heavy-handed. You still leave out that important upper voice in bar 8 and similar. And it seems to be sloppier than the previous version, perhaps as you were concentrating so hard on changing the style. You need to take care of clean chord attack (they are uneven sometimes) and the RH must generally sing out above the LH. Also you should take care not to accent the 3rd beat of the bars. In a two-note figure, like the 2nd and 3d beat of a waltz, the last note must nearly always be a bit softer than the first. An there is, especially in Chopin, hardly even an accent on the end of a phrase. This has been drilled into me since taking lessons again, and it took me a while to get used to.

Dynamically it is not as rigid as the previous but there could be so much more contrast... Either version is good enought for the site, but any Chopin lover will expect just a bit more. Also, in an easy piece like this there's not really an excuse for slips. Perhaps you have just been relying on memory for too long.

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:03 pm 
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Okay, I liked this tempo much better. But I have to agree with everything Techneut said. The ear really misses that C-to-a-B in bar 8 and the one near the end.

Isn't this fun? :wink:

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:55 am 
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Good work, 8) out of these three pieces. I liked your Bach, the best.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:12 pm 
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OK people,

Thanks again for the feedback. I'll be chewing on it. And yes, it is a lot of fun.

Oh and Chris. You don't have to put them on the website yet. I intend to make a clean and solid entrance there.

Greetings from Peter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:20 am 
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The strangest things happen.

Yesterday i looked at the script to discover what reading (or memory) errors i made in the third Walz. For example in the infamous 8th bar where the b and c notes where supposed to be missing in the right hand. Guess what....

These notes where not there in my edition by Oswin Keller (Publisher: Cranz & Co Ltd, Londen). So i looked it up in an edition by Sholtz/v. Pozniak (Publisher: Edition Peters). And there they were.

I think i will stick to my old edition. Suits me better. Strange though....

Peter Schuttevaar


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:35 am 
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pepasch wrote:
These notes where not there in my edition by Oswin Keller (Publisher: Cranz & Co Ltd, Londen). So i looked it up in an edition by Sholtz/v. Pozniak (Publisher: Edition Peters). And there they were.

I think i will stick to my old edition. Suits me better. Strange though....

I don't think Peters is always the most reliable edition, but in this case I'd trust it above your obscure Oswin Keller edition. I think all other editions (certainly the authoritative Paderewsky that I use) have these notes too, and it sounds really weird and limp without them. So even if you stick to the edition you are used to (there's always a good point in that) I would recommend adding these notes. No reason why you should stick with the errors as well....

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:07 pm 
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I have the same situation here. My Dover edition has them and I guess whenever I have played this Waltz, it was this version. However, my Kalmus edition does not have those two notes, and I never noticed it before now.

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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