Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:25 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Dohnanyi, “Postludium”, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen.

I’ve played numerous preludes, so I decided to play a postlude. This music of Ernst von Dohnanyi was published in 1905, and the composer himself premiered Winterreigen in 1906. The term Winterreignen was taken from a poem of Viktor Heindl wherein the poet rues the wintery sad memories of nostalgic times. For the “Postludium” Dohnanyi took the letters of the word Ade (adieu or farewell) and wove them into the theme of this late romantic piece. Two very obvious examples would be in measure 3 where the melody starts in the right hand, and also the cadence in the coda. Dohnanyi, a piano student of Istvan Thoman and Eugen D’Albert, was a powerful force in both the music world and the Hungarian school of piano which originated with Liszt. I hope you’ll enjoy hearing this piece.

Comments welcome.

David

Piano: Baldwin Model L Artist Grand (6’3”) with lid fully open.
Recorder: Korg MR-1000
Mics: Matched pair of Earthworks TC-20 small diaphragm, omni-directional condenser mics in A-B configuration

Dohnanyi - Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:59 am
Posts: 268
The expressiveness, RH line and dynamic contrasts are absolutely wonderful. The LH triplets are uneven in a very particular way: first note held extra long, second and third notes smooshed together. Almost sounds like quarter eighth eighth. If that is purposeful rubato then consider varying it a bit--maybe be totally even as a default and then give tge first note extra time occasionally in measures where you really want extra stress on the downbeat? Just one possibility.

I love the piece and am glad to hear it on piano society!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Heather,

I think the problem is age. I don't have quite the same dexterity that I had years ago. I'm just glad to be able to play it at tempo (although not as fast as some others). I can fix the triplets practicing slowly, but in the rush and sweep at tempo, I find it far more difficult. Being a lyrical pianist, I've never been great at fast passage work, but sometimes I challenge myself as in this instance. I'm glad though that you also found things to like in my playing. I appreciate that. Thanks!

David.

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:34 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
Hi David,
I don't know much about Dohnanyi except for his technique books (which are very hard IMO!). It was nice to hear an actual musical composition from him. Your LH did seem like it was struggling a bit, but overall there is a nice swell of dynamics and the whole recording in general is pleasant to hear. Nice job!
It's on the site.
(thanks for the correct tags!! :) )

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Monica,

Thanks! I'm glad you liked the piece and my rendition. I did my best to control the left hand. Ideally, I believe that the left hand part of this piece is supposed to be like a quiet perpetual motion effect. And at rapid speed, you shouldn't be able to hear much other than the harmonic changes. That's how the best pianists pull this piece off. I do envy the pianists who have great left hands for speed and agility. Yes, I tried to compensate with the dynamic swells you mention, the timing, and the sense of sweep. Velocity though is an aspect of the central nervous system. Years ago after spending a very long time with Hanon and Czerny, I concluded that either one is born with that capability... or not. I'm somewhat in the "or not" category. :lol: But I did enjoy challenging myself.

I very much appreciate your putting this piece up. Thanks!

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 766
Location: Edinburgh, UK
I also picked up on the lh unevenness. It didn't particularly bother me - I think it created a rocking, undulating effect, and to me it sounded quite effective. That the unevenness was consistent was I think to its advantage: it became a feature, rather than a mannerism. Anyway, I'm biased because I think arpeggiated lh figures of this type in music of this period should be played with a slight tenuto on the bass note. Perhaps there's a marginal lack of fluency, but there was enough variety of tone colour throughout the recording that I didn't find it an issue at all. Nice playing!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for listening and commenting. I'm glad that you enjoying hearing my rendition. I hear you on using tenuto on the bass notes. I thought of that but was concerned that it might bring out the downbeats too much in a piece which should sound seamless in regards to meter. If I had better evenness it might be an option. Actually I've been fighting the evenness thing in fast left-hand passage work since I was 8 years old. I've read that the longer the fingers (like mine) the more difficult it is to assure that quality. To compensate, the undulating sound you noticed is exactly what I was aiming for throughout the playing. In cases where the LH had to traverse two octaves at that speed, the more difficult it was to maintain evenness. I found that two techniques in particular are essential in the left hand part--moving the elbow away from the body whenever necessary, and rotary motion in the forearm to better overcoming some difficult stretches in the passage work. Normally I would avoid playing a piece such as this altogether and leave it to others. But I love the sound of it and noticed that Dohnanyi was not represented in the Composers List here. It was like jumping into a pool of crabs and ice water :) , but I did it!

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Last edited by Rachfan on Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:45 pm
Posts: 387
Location: New Jersey, USA
What an interesting piece. Thank you. And our first entry for a composer that is not at all unknown.
I had read the comments before listening to the recording and the LH still did not bother me.

_________________
stu kautsch


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:08 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
A wonderful piece, played with passion and panache. The triplets did not bother me either, I think it's ok to lean a bit on the bass notes here. I like especially your rendition of the last few bars, with its exquisite diminuendo and affectionate 'ADE' ending. Great job, one of the best recordings I've heard from you.
And I did not hear a page turn ! Any chance you can record more of this cycle ?

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Stu,

Whenever I can find a piece whose composer is obscure, unknown, or as in this case neglected, it's a joy to play a piece as an homage. There was another incentive too: My first teacher had studied with Miklos Schwalb at the New England Conservatory. Schwalb was a student of Dohnanyi. So where a bit of that heritage probably influenced my own playing, it was also an honor to play the "Postludium".

I'm glad you were OK with the left hand. I did everything I could to keep it under control. Sometimes it was tough.

Thanks for listening and commenting!

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Last edited by Rachfan on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Chris,

Thank you for all those kudos. I greatly appreciate it. Yes, for a short work, it's an extraordinary piece of music. Whenever I encounter a piece with passion and surges in the romantic tradition like that, I can't resist them. The ending can be challenging. Dohnanyi wanted it done over two lines, not within a measure or two. Undoubtedly there are some who probably execute it better than I. Still, I liked the way I let the dim. and rit. (calando) unfold the way I heard it in my mind.

I don't know yet about doing other pieces in Winterreigen. Believe it or not, the sheet music for "Postludium" was in an anthology containing music of several composers. I think I only have a couple of those books in my scores cabinet. All the other volumes are dedicated in each case to a single composer. So I'd have to look around, maybe in the IMSLP. I'll keep it in mind though.

P.S. There was no page turn, as the score pages just barely fit on my copier. :)

Thanks again.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
Hello, David,

I am a very bad member these days: I do dowload almost all new recordings submitted, but never get around to listening to them, what with pretending to work, practising the piano and listening to opera with the little girl, I get little time to do much elese. I tried putting them on a flash card and listening to them in the mornings while I squeeze oranges, but then my low-fi plays all tracks in the order in which they are written, so that I do not know if I am listening to you playing Scriabin or Chris playing Bach! :shock: Welll, perhaps not as bad as that, but still... :wink:

Yesterday I did, however, find a gap in between am aria and a chorus of the Gypsy Baron (in the version that lauched Siegrfried Jerusalem's career) and listened to this one. I must confess I am not a great enthusiast of Dohnanyi, though I do like his little joke piece for piano and orchestra, a joke which he unfortunately gives away in the title: Variations on a Nursery Rhyme, which maybe you know. If you do not, werll, you ought to!

This, however, is a good piece (I mean, the one you submitted), I must say. I will not dwell on the technical issues that others have called your attention to, but I do think you did do a good job, even if this is a "fast piece" in your opinion. If this was a "stretch piece", you did very well.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:13 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Great recording - I never heard this before but you sound very confident. I noted the uneven LH only in the very opening, after that it blends in nicely. Very good control of dynamics. Thanks for posting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi troglodyte,

Thanks for those compliments, which I greatly appreciate.

Although it's not indicated in the score, my intention in the opening measure was to effect an accelerando or increase in velocity there after sounding the first G more loudly as well. It adds a touch of drama. (G is actually the dominant rather than the tonic key of C, yet it prevails throughout the music.) I really like the accelerando as a ramping up to what follows.

Thanks for listening and commenting.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Richard,

Glad to see you back at Piano Society. Seemed like you were in a hiatus for awhile.

Yes, I'm well familiar with Dohnanyi's "Variations on a Nursery Rhyme". It's very witty, droll and satirical in imitating the styles of other composers. You can't help but smile. I haven't heard it in years though. It's down in the basement on an LP. I wonder if it's performed on air as often as it was in the past.

Anytime I have to deal with the left hand in fast figuration, its always a stretch for me. In this piece they are not quarter notes in common time, but rather triplets. There was plenty enough to occupy my left hand in coping with the speed. It is a wonderful piece though. I'm glad you enjoyed my rendition.

Looking forward to your next recording. Seems like it's been quite awhile.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:07 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Rachfan wrote:
Yes, I'm well familiar with Dohnanyi's "Variations on a Nursery Rhyme". It's very witty, droll and satirical in imitating the styles of other composers. You can't help but smile.
I always found this piece to have a too high Tom and Jerry factor. It probably means I have insufficient sense of humor :D

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
I have the variations on a CD, taken from an LP. I suspect I will need to clean it in future. Audacity does that quite nicely, as long as it involves only removing the clicks and dividing, say, a concerto recorded in one track, into three. I recently did that with my version of the Magic Flute and it was a great improvement.

As for recording... I was waiting for the weather to settle to have the piano tuned, but then, of course, I still have the voice recorder issue. With the piano, for once, I am thoroughly satisfied. It is funny how a big piano is not as loud as a console - and I open the lid when I play - and how it is wonderful to have an uncluttered keyboard. I suppose only those who have suffered can feel bliss.

I opened a topic which also has to do with new recordings, so I do not clutter yours: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5792

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Richard,

I'm glad you're liking your piano. Once it's tuned, I think you'll like it all the more.

Today I did maintenance on the Baldwin L. I took the action out and put it on a couple of artist benches. First I adjusted a few hammers to ensure that they are all level. Then I used a narrow brass brush (resembles a tooth brush, but a little larger) to do a few forward, outward swipes over the tops of each hammer to clear any metalic residue from the grooves. Next, I applied teflon powder with a narrow artist's brush to the shank knuckles to improve velocity. Finally I tightened up the action, although it didn't need much. Before putting the action back, I vacuumed out the case. Then once the action was in, I vacuumed the red felts over the agraffs and the black tops of the dampers. Finally, I took a piece of steel wool and rubbed it lengthwise up and down (just two strokes is all) on all the all steel strings to remove any possible rust specks. With A/C on during the humid summer, it's unlikely there was any rust, nor could I see any, but it's a good precautionary measure anyway. I'm sure the piano appreciated the TLC! :)

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 704
Location: Carbondale, IL
David, I had a listen to your Dohnanyi Postludium. It was a pleasure to hear, and it is my first time to have. I like the way you shape the phrases, and the transition into the sturm and drang section. The ending of three chords is quite ingenious, I tip my hat to the composer.

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi pianoman,

Thank you for finding so much to like in this short piece! The beginning of the piece, as I would hear it when first practicing it, seemed familiar. Then it dawned on me that it's similar to Schumann's Fantasy! I too like the ending. I think it takes a great composer to make a shift like that which will not disappoint the listeners. Reminds me of one of the Scriabin Preludes I listed here--Op. 37, No. 1 in B flat minor. After all the gorgeous polyphony, Scriabin was able to thin out the texture and to shape a most poignant and unforgettable ending. Here Dohnanyi was every bit as capable.

Thanks for listening and commenting.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:53 am
Posts: 14
Very nice to see some Dohnanyi played here, although the consistent off-beat nature of the triplets was for me a shame, perhaps it helps if you haven't heard a recording before, I'm not sure... But all in all a well-rounded performance and you did handle the ending very well.

Dohnanyi's output is for the most part very difficult in my opinion, as is the case with so many composer-pianists of the post-Brahmsian late romantic; and there are many of them, however Dohnanyi is an under-appreciated highlight in my opinion. Brahms was also a fan: of his Piano Quintet No.1 (worth a listen) he said "I could not have written it better myself".

In case anyone is interested Martin Roscoe is in the process of recording his entire solo works. This piece was the first of Dohnanyi's I heard, it's really great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4JsVzbGumI

Well done once again, you really got the character of the piece across!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi jontyl,

I'm glad you enjoyed my rendition of the "Postludium". I would have to agree that Dohnanyi's music is quite challenging. Many years ago I played his Rhapsody, Op. 11, No. 3 in C--very much like a scherzo. What an introduction to his music! My first teacher studied with Miklos Schwalb, a student of Dohnanyi. So as a kind of homage, I thought it would be nice to play the "Postludium", and at the same time it raised awareness here of this fine composer. Thanks for the link to the "Passacaglia". Turns out it's a huge set of variations, and very difficult at that. I'll leave it for the virtuoso pianists!

I appreciated your comment that I got the piece across to you. The fact is, quite candidly, I don't have a "big technique", but many pianists over the years have told me that I know how to put a piece across to the listener. For me that's the single most important element of interpretation and performance. Thank you for that compliment!

I'm working on another Dohnanyi piece (but won't reveal which one until it's recorded--yes, I know it's superstition :lol: ).

Thanks for listening!

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Monica,

I just played my library MP3 music file of the Dohnanyi piece, then listened to it here. I didn't notice any difference. But that's not to say that you're hearing things. I can tell you that the playback "timbre" here is different from that at Piano Street and YouTube. (YouTube playback is sometimes too loud because of their "processing", but I have notice that over the last couple of years their sound has noticeably better clarity to it.

Do you still record with an Edirol (or Tascam?) and use a USB2 to transfer a file to the computer? Or do you record directly to the computer now? I've always read that he former is better than the latter, as sometimes the PC can create sound anomalies of its own.

Right now I'm the most unlikely pianist here where it comes to recording. I've always loved my Korg MR-1000 recorder. Evidently Microsoft is believed to have distributed one of their routine Windows Updates. Well I, along with a great number of others, can no longer get the PC to recognize the recording device through the USB connection. I erased the USB hubs to get clean replacements, tried three different USB2 cables, made sure that all drivers are the latest and greatest, tried every USB2 port on the PC, tried some of the suggested solutions which did nothing, and even had the retailer contact Korg to see if they had heard of a solution. All of that was for nothing. So my latest recording is trapped inside the Korg with no place to go, as I can't do the routine USB transfer. and Microsoft's tips are totally worthless. Several people have posted "solutions" only to get a bunch of replies back saying that the solutions didn't work. And of course, Add a Device through Device Manager is impossible, because Windows can't detect the USB2 connection and device at the other end. I've run out of options, so will likely have to buy a new recorder--a process that I hate.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:14 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Ow, that is infuriating. It seems to be quite a horror story with USB stopping working after Windows update. And not a new issue either. Plenty people saying they fixed it but what works for one may not work for another.

Have you thought of taking out the Korg's memory card and putting it in your computer's card reader ? Assuming you have a working card reader, and not an external USB one that may now be failing...

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 766
Location: Edinburgh, UK
In addition to Chris's suggestion, which if it works, is clearly the simplest solution, might I add:
Do you have system restore to roll back the system to before the update (which was probably cosmetic in intent)? Do check the date you are rolling back to though - if it's a while in the past I wouldn't do it due to potential other losses caused.
As a temporary fix you could try taking the recorder into an internet cafe and transfer the file(s) onto a memory stick or similar.
Alternatively, buy a cheap, old, secondhand computer from a computer shop and use it as a device to read the Korg.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:55 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Yes rolling back the update might well fix it. But it's a dangerous road - you either go with Windows updates or you don't. I think selective
updating, or not updating, is a sure road to trouble. Also, if an update really buggers up USB then MS is likely to fix that soon. Having said that some of the horror stories seen to be quite old already. Could have been different issues.

Maybe the Korg's USB is just getting too long in the tooth (I love that phrase :) ) and can no longer be supported. In that case going
to an Internet cafe is not going to help I guess.

Putting a separate computer in your home network for this purpose alone seems gross overkill to me. Then I'd prefer updating the recorder (provided another recorder *is* recognized - the problem may not be specific to the Korg). You'll need to experiment with different USB
devices. Buy a cheap USB stick (not a bad idea having one as backup anyway) and see if that works.

Using the memory card does seem the most painless option if the problem won't be resolved.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 766
Location: Edinburgh, UK
A possibly relevant question is 'do the USB ports detect anything at all now?' Is the problem with the Korg alone? I was't really suggesting adding a new pc to the network, just getting a cheap as possible (£40-type) old tower unit and using it as a transfer mechanism to get data off the Korg and onto a memory stick. That's my worst case scenario solution.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:19 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
Hi David,
Sorry, I saw your response to me just now. Seems my problem is my Internet, not my recorder. I still use an Edirol and have no problem with it....except the cord, which my husband recently soldered (that word is spelled so strangely, isn't it? ), so it's working again. I don't know how to help you with your problem, but looks like you are getting good ideas from Chris and Andrew.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Andrew,

On your question, yes, when I use the UBS2 for the camera, Windows detects it immediately. Just a couple of days ago I uploaded some photos. The horror stories I've been seeing more often than not involve external backup hard drive. I have one of those (SeaGate), but it's not affected. Interestingly, the Korg runs on its own hard drive. So that might be a parallel with external hard drives. Where the Korg uses a HD rather than flash card technology there is no port on the unit for a memory stick. The only port is for the USB2. Luckily, there is only my latest recording on there, nothing else.

I started using the Korg in 2007, so I've been using it for about 7 years now.

I have to go now, but will be back to reply to the rest of your thoughts this afternoon.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:24 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Oh wowza, a hard disk recorder. The things some can afford :)

Seriously I did not know these even existed. Seems less than ideal, especially for recording, I wouldn't want a HD whizzing around near the microphones.
Now unless you can either fix this, or offload your file to someone else's PC, the best option is probably to do System Restore to a date where things still worked (hopefully you'll have one), keep that restore point in a safe place, and revert back after you've offloaded your file. A royal pain in the botty but less hassle than having to get a new recorder.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Chris,

Actually I've never been able to hear any noise coming from the Korg. Also the microphones, tethered by the mic cables to the Korg through XRL connectors are 15 feet away from the Korg. So no problem there. The HD is 40 Gbyte, although I never used the storage, always erasing it once I transferred a file to the PC.

The only time I've had good (almost guaranteed) luck, was bringing up a restore point from the previous day. When I last did an upload, this Dohnanyi piece actually, it was in mid-November--almost 2 1/2 months ago. I'm fearful of using a restore point from that long ago, as there have been Microsoft Updates almost weekly during that time. And there is no telling precisely when within the two months his misfortune happened. With all the complaints Microsoft, if they cared about their customers :roll:, would have gone back in time to find the error themselves to include in an update. No such luck. The Korg's picture, like the camera and external backup HD, used to appear in Device Manager, but I didn't notice it disappear because I had no reason to go looking for it. Had I been aware of it, I could have started working on the problem then. Anyway, when I return the PC to present, the Korg will still not be useful for future uploads, although I could listen to practice sessions with the headset. But I could also do that with a new recorder.

I believe that our son and daughter have laptops. Probably next time one or the other visits, I could alert them to bring their laptop. That would at least release "the last recording" :cry:. It looks like a forced retirement for the Korg. What an extraordinary recorder it is. Like a rare bird.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi,

Korg replied to Sweetwater which in turn emailed me. Korg has had no reports that the MR-1000 is having compatability problems with computers. Also an interesting point: The Korg doesn't need or use any drivers. So what I need to do next is attempt to make a USB connection to a different computer. If the other computer likewise cannot detect the device, then the Korg needs to be sent in for service. Where the Canon camera connection and external modem are not problematical, I feel it does point to the Korg being at fault. But if the Korg is detected by the other computer, then I'm back to the Microsoft issue. (I am not seeing this as a hardware matter. My Dell Inspiron 560 is running like a champ. Nothing suspicious there.) I might have an answer this week.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
What a difference a day makes! Regarding my Korg MR-1000 no longer being found as a device by the PC, I have good news. Today I took the Korg to the office and did a USB2 connection with a laptop there. Well! It couldn't sense the Korg as a device either! Then I took the extra step of Adding a Device. Again, the laptop couldn't find the device to add it. Also, the Korg technician said that the MR-1000 doesn't need or use drivers, although all mine are up to date. I'm hoping to hear tomorrow about the location of the nearest authorized Korg repair center, so I can ship it there. So there's still life in her yet. I'm very relieved, as it's far more difficult to shop for a quality 2-track tabletop recorder than the latest PC model. Hopefully I'll be able to post a new recording here at PS sooner than later. :D

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:24 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Rachfan wrote:
Today I took the Korg to the office and did a USB2 connection with a laptop there. Well! It couldn't sense the Korg as a device either!
Not sure why you find that good news. To me it seems like good news for your PC rather than for the Korg.
I'll be interested how Korg are going to " repair" this. Be sure to tell them to first of all preserve your recording that is on it ! If they can, that is...

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Chris,

The PC techs here, usually at stores like Staples and Best Buy, more often than not won't fix a problem right at the counter unless it's incredibly easy. It's not unusual for them to keep a PC for five days or more. I'd also have to leave the Korg with them (which would be unfamiliar to them, nor would I want them looking inside of it.) And with a PC there's the bother of undoing the hundred cords and then doing all the hookups on the return. More importantly, daily, I need the PC (including for my part-time job), whereas the Korg I need maybe once or twice a month. I have the Korg's sturdy travel case and the original box as well. The UPS store is right here in town. So shipping will be easy. Overall, I think this outcome will be the most convenient and expeditious.

I too have thought about preserving the recordings if possible. It now has three versions of the piece. That's all there is on the 40 gig HD. Worse case, I can get the piece back in my fingers fairly quickly. So if they're unable to preserve those recordings, it won't be a disaster. Overall, I'm OK with this outcome. But again, given the testing, bottom line is that the Korg needs the attention, not the PC.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi,

Arrrggg! Here's the update: Sweetwater's techs checked out the Korg MR-1000 making a USB2 connection with a PC there running Windows 7 Professional. In 20 trials they couldn't make the Korg fail!!! It was recognized every time by Device Manager. So now it's back home again but it still isn't detected here by Device Manager. You might recall that the Korg connected to my Dell Inspiron 560 PC running Windows 7 Home Premium. And I had also brought the Korg to a Dell Laptop at my office downtown with Windows 7 Professional. It couldn't detect the Korg as a device either, or establish it as a new device. Last night I spent about an hour running every Dell Inspiron 560 diagnostic test in their list. It passed every last test. I should reiterate that Korg is adament that the MR-1000 needs NO driver. None. So even though my PC has every latest and greatest driver checked against three different testing services, that's irrelevant in this matter. The Korg is definitely not the problem, nor is the Dell. It's simply not a hardware issue. That leaves what I considered to be the No. 1 suspect all along--Microsoft. So now I have to slog through the self help muck and mire again searching for a solution. Oh, another thing comes to mind: If I were to purchase a new recorder, Device Manager might not recognize that one either! I don't want to chance that. I'll report back if I have a breakthrough. No, I said a breakthrough, not a breakdown. :lol: I really do miss posting pieces here.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:43 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
I understand your frustration. All you want is to use your hardware to do the things you love, and instead you sit there fighting Windows. And searching for a solution to a Windows problem is like searching for a needle in a haystack, one that's full of fake needles.

Not sure what Korg means that the device needs no drivers. Perhaps they mean that they do not supply a Korg-specific driver, and that one of the standard MS drivers does the job. This is so with my Tascam, see screenshot.

Now, Device Manager has some options like 'Scan for hardware changes' and ' Add legacy hardware' (at least my version here on Windows Vista). Perhaps you could try these out.


Attachments:
File comment: Tascam DR-2D drivers
drivers.jpg
drivers.jpg [ 19.02 KiB | Viewed 3489 times ]

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 766
Location: Edinburgh, UK
techneut wrote:

Not sure what Korg means that the device needs no drivers. Perhaps they mean that they do not supply a Korg-specific driver, and that one of the standard MS drivers does the job. This is so with my Tascam, see screenshot.


I'd assume that's the case. If it's basically an external HD which is also capable (!) of recording sound, then I don't see why it would need a specific driver - all that's required is for Windows to be able to read an external HD. However it is very peculiar reading back over the thread, because it seems that the Korg can't be recognised, but another external HD can - which surely eliminates the possibility of a fault with an individual USB port. Perhaps the various Windows updates and, possibly, the process of deleting and re-recognising the USB ports have caused some hardware conflict, but that is specialist territory and I am really speculating. System restore remains an option I suspect, not devoid of risks and side-effects of course.

It would be interesting to know the exact version and update status of the various PCs which have or haven't been able to recognise the device.

This seems like a ridiculous question (roughly akin to "IS IT SWITCHED ON"?) but I presume the Korg is in USB mode when you've attempted the transfer and not been bumped into another setting? Never used one so I don't know how it gets set up, but I've occasionally messed up on my Edirol by having accidentally bumped one of the setting switches on the rear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Chris and Andrew,

I also agree--when Korg says the MR-1000 does not need a driver, they probably mean that they don't issue a special driver for the unit.

Chris, I found the Driver Files Detail and opened it for a mysterious "USB Mass Storage Device", but the information details are cryptic such that I couldn't conclusively link it for sure to the Korg. There is an option to see if Drivers are working, and all of them are reported as functioning.

Andrew, all I can say about the operating system is that it's Windows 7 Home Premium, and when I bought the Dell four years ago, Windows Updates started automatically when I first turned on the PC up to today. I've also gone manually into Microsoft Updates to see if anything should be downloaded. Right now there is one important update available for Skype, which I never use, and three optional updates that would provide no benefit to my use. So, yes, I do keep tabs on that.

Now, suspicion might be shifting! Yesterday we visited our son who also lives in Maine. I brought the Korg and USB2 wire with me. We turned on the Korg, switched to USB Slave Mode and plugged the wire first into a laptop running Windows 8. The Korg was not detected. Then we hooked it into a PC running XP. Again the Korg was not detected. Finally (the best test matching the same operating systems) we hooked it to a laptop running Windows 7 Home Premium. It took four tries, but on the last one the upload box popped up as it should. But I still can't achieve that at home. We surmised this: Both computers run Windows 7 Home Premium. Both subscribe to automatic Windows Updates, so both get the very same updates. Yet one worked (after a few tries), and one didn't work. Plus it didn't work in XP or Windows 8 either. This might suggest that there is a factor of intermittent performance present. For example, if an electronic component is now faulty of failing after seven years of use, it could be intermittent where sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I just gave it a few hard taps to see if it would "blink" in some way, but nothing happened. This theory assumes that the problem is really the Korg. This might also raise questions about the retailer's tech being unable to make it fail. It has given me seven years of good service. Plus maybe the flash cards are better technology now than the older hard drive in the Korg. So maybe the best bet now is to open a search for a new recorder that will satisfy my needs for making home recordings.

P.S. The search is on already. I'm considering the Roland-Edirol R-44 and the Tascam HD-P2. One thing I noticed in comparing specifications is that the Tascam has a retake button which allows you to do a redo a take with a single button press. The old Korg involved several steps to do that. Hey, stop laughing! :lol:

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:17 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
It could be stating the bloody obvious, bur maybe your cable has gone wonky. That could explain why it works intermittently, and why Korg could not get it to fail - perhaps they used their own cable ?
Just an idea, not sure if we'd consider this before.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 766
Location: Edinburgh, UK
techneut wrote:
It could be stating the bloody obvious, bur maybe your cable has gone wonky. That could explain why it works intermittently, and why Korg could not get it to fail - perhaps they used their own cable ?


That might makes sense. It's consistent with it not being detected on the office laptop tried earlier on in the thread. The only problem is - in the initial description David said he tried three separate USB cables. The PC which found the Korg intermittently is very peculiar. (I hope the recording file got extracted when the chance presented itself!)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
andrew wrote:
The only problem is - in the initial description David said he tried three separate USB cables.

Oh I did not see that. Yet another suspect gets away with an alibi. It is quite a maddening case if all you want to do is sit down and record your music. Maybe a new modern recorder would be the way to go. With an option to get a refund in case the PC does not recognize it. Although in that case I'd seriously consider a new PC as well.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Chris and Andrew,

In the matter of the USB2 cables: In addition to the one (rather expensive BTW) that I always used to upload the music files to the PC from the Korg, I felt that I needed to do a test to rule it out as the culprit. So first I used the USB2 that I use for uploading camera photos, as it's always recognized immediately. It didn't work with the Korg. Next, I unwrapped a new one its packaging, so never used before. No luck with that one either. Thus the other two cables seemed to exonerate the one I dedicated to the Korg. (That one has gold fittings.)

I've had the Korg for seven years. Although it never left the living room, it went through many grueling recording sessions. Of course, I do full takes. So the only takes I saved for awhile were those that qualified for auditioning so that I could choose the best one. During recording sessions, if anything irritated me in doing a take, I would stop the recorder, delete the partial take, and reset the machine to start the next take. It sits on a piano bench (years ago I sat on it until I shifted over to artist benches which are more comfortable). Sometimes in doing the erasing, I'd tip the Korg up to see what I was doing, and then set it down lightly on the wooden bench again. Could be that over the years and uncountable times doing that, something might have jarred loose. My guess is that the retailer's tech never opened the case to examine what was in there. I suspect that he did the USB2 connections only as tests. It seems preposterous to me that that Korg was recognized 20 times in a row. When I used the laptop at the office downtown, it was not recognized. And at my son's house, it was recognized only after several attempts in Windows 7. It went nowhere in XP and Windows 8. So I continue to believe there is definitely a problem there.

I would bet that Roland-Edirol and Tascam use dedicated drivers, but I don't know.

Yes, Chris, I thought of that last night too--making the sale conditional on the unit being recognized by Device Manager. I've found a couple of replacement contenders, the Roland-Edirol R-44 and the Tascam HD-P2. Both are portable (but not hand-held) field recorders using flash card storage. I put an inquiry in the Resources Forum to see if any knows anything about them. The advantages and specifications are promising, but as one would expect there are trade-offs too.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
I've purchased the Roland R-44-E (Edirol) today along with a SDHC flash card of 32 gigs capacity. The story is over on the Useful Resources forum. :)

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:57 am
Posts: 320
Location: New York City
Hi David,

Thank you for sharing this interesting piece. It reminds me of a movie theme from
the 1940's.
I'm thinking that perhaps it would be a bit more emotive if it were played a tad slower. It might be
possible to bring out a little bit more depth.

- Kaila

_________________
musicrecovery


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Kaila,

On the tempo: The piece is marked "allegro non troppo", but then as a contradiction the time signature is cut time. I went to YouTube and listened to the next half-dozen under my recording (which is at the top of the list). Their tempi seemed quite close to mine, such that I felt that mine was similar to the norm there. There was one odd rendition there where the pianist seemingly put a rallentando followed by an accelerando within each phrase! This caused exaggerated rubatos in my opinion, despite their being emotive. Too idiosyncratic for me. From all I heard, I don't think I would want to change my approach to the piece. In my own interpretation I don't think my playing is without the emotive aspect; however, exhilaration is also a powerful element there.

Thanks for listening and commenting!

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:57 am
Posts: 320
Location: New York City
Hi David,

My comment is a totally subjective, not based on
any kind of knowledge of the composer's intent and is no reflection of your interpretation.

What is interesting is you bring up the fact that it is in cut time while being
allegro non troppo. There is a bit of a contradiction in that.
Given the kind of harmonies and emotion it sounds like it should have been marked
andante to me.

You definitely play this piece  with expression.

Thanks for Sharing,
Kaila

_________________
musicrecovery


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Kaila,

Yes, writing allegro non troppo and then marking cut time.... When I first looked at the score, I must say that struck me as a paradox--a collision of two truths. I really had to think about it! Here's something interesting I discovered tonight--a sample of Dohnanyi playing his "Postludium" from a CD! To me his tempo sounds somewhat close to mine, but just a little bit faster. Link:

http://www.allmusic.com/performance/wid ... 0000815684

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dohnanyi, Postludium, Op. 13, No. 10 from Winterreigen
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:57 am
Posts: 320
Location: New York City
David,

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

-Kaila

_________________
musicrecovery


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group