Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:43 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Last evening I was poking through some of my older recordings and came across my rendition of the Faure's 6th Barcarolle. Although the 5th Barcarolle is probably the most famous and well known of the set, the 6th has always been my personal favorite. So I thought I'd post it for the Faure fans here as there is no recording of it in the PS archive. True to Faure's idiom, the tonal centers are constantly shifting, but to marvelous effect. It perhaps depicts a small sailboat bounding over the coastal swells on a sunny day.

The naming protocols are my originals. If there is any interest in the recording, I'd be glad to change the naming and tagging information to PS' standard settings.

I hope you'll enjoy hearing this music.

At the end of June I hope to have a new recording ready. (No hints at this time. :lol:)

David

Faure - Barcarolle No. 6 in E flat major, Op. 70

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Last edited by Rachfan on Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:56 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
Hi David,
This interested me because I have just started working on one of Faure's Barcarolles too - a different one than yours here.
This one is nice and pretty (the one I'm working on is a lot different!). And it's played very well! The sound quality is not so good; there is a lot of hiss. It would be great if you could eliminate it with an editing program. But if you can't, then I would be willing to put this up as is. Let me know. If you want this exact file to go up, then yes please correct the tags and title.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Monica,

Here is a cleaner replacement file for the Faure Barcarolle if you'd like to put it up. The naming and tag info has been correctly entered. But on my last post, Chris said he could tell that I did the naming properly but it displayed instead as symbols, but where he knows programming he could tell that I had formatted it correctly. He had to then override that with the naming as it should have appeared. I had no control over it. Hopefully this one will display correctly as have all of my others previously submitted. The uploading of this file is taking forever! Will there be a way to move the music file up to my original post?

Looking forward to hearing your Faure.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:39 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
This probably Faure's most popular, appealing and sunny Barcarolle, the first one I came to know.
It is artistically played, and I like the way you bring out the middle voice in some places, I had never really noticed that voice and will take heed of
it from now on. I don't hear much if any hiss, but I don't have Monica's hiss-specialized ears.
Now I have to be honest and say that I have some problems with this recording:

1) The tempo seems much too slow and rigid. This could be personal of course. But I believe this music should flow and swing a bit.
2) The piano sounds rather clangorous.
3) There is far too much pedal, or in any case it's not always released in time.
4) There are a couple of hesitations/page turns which you should really cut out. This would NOT diminish your performance.
5) I thought there were some dropped notes and maybe some passages not played as written. Would have to follow with score to be sure.

Sorry to be a bit critical !
Naming and tagging looks fine to me, the one tag you forgot is 'Album' but this is no big deal.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:30 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
Ok, the file sounds swimmy, but I guess there is less hiss now. Chris probably listened to the second file here. Anyway, I do not know this piece and therefore didn't know your tempo is too slow. Do you still want it on the site?

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
Ok, the file sounds swimmy, but I guess there is less hiss now. Chris probably listened to the second file here.

Didn't know there were two versions, was hiss removed ? Usually that does not improve sound quality. I probably would not have heard it in the first version, these days I don't notice hiss if it slapps me in the face :)

pianolady wrote:
Anyway, I do not know this piece and therefore didn't know your tempo is too slow. Do you still want it on the site?

It's just my opinion that it is too slow. If David is following a metronome mark or the example of some great pianist, then I've no problem with it.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:58 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
techneut wrote:
pianolady wrote:
Ok, the file sounds swimmy, but I guess there is less hiss now. Chris probably listened to the second file here.

Didn't know there were two versions, was hiss removed ? Usually that does not improve sound quality. I probably would not have heard it in the first version, these days I don't notice hiss if it slapps me in the face :)
I don't recall hearing hiss in your recordings; are you eliminating it in your post-processing?

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:11 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
I don't recall hearing hiss in your recordings; are you eliminating it in your post-processing?

No I don't. I know my recordings with the Edirol had considerable hiss, I think it's better since I have a Tascam, but probably still there. I am surprised you
don't hear any.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Chris and Monica,

This is a 1986 recording, but I was able to edit out the hiss successfully. As for the tempo, the only recording I have is Jean-Philippe Collard's. At the time, I knew my tempo was a bit slower. I just tried to play the CD now, but Windows player is not cooperating, so I'll have to figure it out tonight. Nonetheless, I do believe that the music is expressive at the chosen speed. The Baldwin piano sound is different now due to the 2007 rebuilding. Regarding pedaling, I believe that Faure and Debussy's works can generally use more pedal than most other composers' works. Also much of the music is in the treble and high treble which allows for more pedal. Half pedal releases are used extensively in this genre as well. Having said that, do I use more judicious pedal now than 30 years ago? I hope so! :) Yes, I know of those two page turns. Whenever I try those kinds of edits, I cringe at the results. There could be a few wrong notes, as I do full recording takes. I would also admit that within the realm of technique, moving linear passage work is not my strongest suit. I'm Old School and look beyond a few wrong notes. I'm more interested in doing a rendition that comports with the composer's wishes, but also allows for some individuality in putting the piece over to the listener.

Anyway, I'll leave it up to you guys as to whether you want to put it up. If not, I'm sure many people would enjoy hearing it here in Audition Room.

Sorry about the Album tag. I don't know how I missed it, as I had the guide sheet right in front of me!

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Last edited by Rachfan on Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:56 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
techneut wrote:
pianolady wrote:
I don't recall hearing hiss in your recordings; are you eliminating it in your post-processing?

No I don't. I know my recordings with the Edirol had considerable hiss, I think it's better since I have a Tascam, but probably still there. I am surprised you
don't hear any.

I don’t exactly remember when you switched recorders; I’m pretty sure I remember thinking that your recordings were clear and I was sure it was because of some setting on your editing program. I don’t think recorders like the ones we use can produce hiss-free recordings. I thought only expensive microphones can do that...

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:13 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
I don’t exactly remember when you switched recorders; I’m pretty sure I remember thinking that your recordings were clear and I was sure it was because of some setting on your editing program.

I'm sure I remember hearing hiss when I used Edirol but not so much after that. Could be I'm just going deaf :)
The only thing I do in postprocessing, except for cutting out flubs, is applying reverb.

pianolady wrote:
I don’t think recorders like the ones we use can produce hiss-free recordings. I thought only expensive microphones can do that...
That is probably so. Still I believe the hiss of a good one like the Tascam is neglectable or in any case acceptable.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:17 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Rachfan wrote:
This is a 1986 recording, but I was able to edit out the hiss successfully.

Then maybe that has caused the sound to be more swimmy and give me the impression it's overpedaled ? Hard to know as I did not hear the first version.

Rachfan wrote:
As for the tempo, the only recording I have is Jean-Philippe Collard's.
Ha ! His recordings introduced me to Faure too. As they
did to Rachmaninov's Etudes-Tableaux. Marvellous recordings from Collard, IIRC.

Rachfan wrote:
Anyway, I'll leave it up to you guys as to whether you want to put it up.

Maybe we should have a poll ? That would be democratic !

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:51 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
techneut wrote:

pianolady wrote:
I don’t think recorders like the ones we use can produce hiss-free recordings. I thought only expensive microphones can do that...
That is probably so. Still I believe the hiss of a good one like the Tascam is neglectable or in any case acceptable.


"neglectable" is not a word. The one you want is "negligible".

I think the Edirol is actually the better of the two recorders; the Edirol is substantially more expensive, or so I thought. But it’s certainly possible that current recorders are even better nowadays. My Edirol still works fine, but the cord is on the way out…again. I’m on the second one, and it’s being held together with electrical tape. I don’t know if I should purchase another cord, or just bite the bullet and get a new recorder.

Ok, back to David’s recording. I’ll put this up since I already said I would, and we don’t already have a recording of this piece on the site. We make a fuss about requiring good sound quality, though, so David I think it’s fine if you wish to post some of your older recordings. From now on they can remain in the forum, but not go up onto the main site. I know you’ve basically said that already, so I hope you are okay with it... :)

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:34 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
"neglectable" is not a word. The one you want is "negligible".

It sure is, see http://www.wordnik.com/words/neglectable
Not all the world is American !

pianolady wrote:
I think the Edirol is actually the better of the two recorders;

Maybe yours is, mine certainly wasn't. Anyway, any modern recorder is fine for the purpose I think.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
techneut wrote:
pianolady wrote:
"neglectable" is not a word. The one you want is "negligible".

It sure is, see http://www.wordnik.com/words/neglectable
Not all the world is American !

Ok, I have not seen that word before.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 765
Location: Edinburgh, UK
I hear a few infelicities (and indeed a page turn) but nothing fatal, though I'm not following with score. What an infuriating recording: there are some genuinely poetic touches (and I don't find it over-pedalled) but the piano??!!

I know we've discussed this in the past and even conducted a test regarding the tuning, but this configuration of your piano has surpassed previous incarnations! I know this shouldn't be an issue when talking about music-making, but it honestly sounds almost honky-tonk: I'd forgotten about this issue and was almost speechless when it started. Which is a shame, because it would sound terrific on a better instrument. I'm going to shut up now, for fear that you think I don't like your playing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Andrew,

Please bear in mind that this is a 1986 recording with the 1984 Baldwin and analog recording equipment which in its day was considered to be good. I've gotten very positive remarks on the Baldwin since it was rebuilt in the 2007. Since that rebuild, the only complaints I got were tuning issues, as the new strings took over a year to reach stability (not to mention the climate issues here). From your comment, I took it that you thought the piano was worse now than in the 1980s. I think it's a large improvement. Since you and I did that scale test, I haven't had any bad criticisms on the piano per se. I just wanted to clarify that in defense of the piano. Yes, I know you're not dissatisfied with my playing, so not to worry.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 765
Location: Edinburgh, UK
No, your current piano is a definite improvement on this '80s piano!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Chris,

I've always thought that Collard is tops. l'm just surprised that he hasn't risen to even greater stature over the years. His playing of the French and Russian romantic music is very hard to beat. I don't know how widely he tours. If it's limited, that might explain it, although he has been prolific in issuing recordings. The Rachmaninoff Etudes Tableau recording he released many years ago is still extraordinary.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Monica,

Yes, your "rule" is fine with me. I'm sure I'm now a different pianist is some ways than when I was in my 40s. But in this case, I thought the playing was fairly good, especially where nobody had ever posted this particular Faure barcarolle previously. I doubt it will do any harm in the archive. Thanks for putting it up.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Hi David,
this is a very good and for my feeling congenial interpretion. Bravo, I´m enthused. I couldn´t discover wrong notes and I have listened with score. And if there a few, it doesn´t matter anything, because the interpretation is full of adequate and authentic feeling. All your expression and dynamic does convince me overall. You really seem to be somehow congenial to the late romantic style (which I find in some way rather complicated, isn´t it?!). So, for me this is an excellent recording. I didn´t hear any hiss and the pedal is used in an optimal way. The two page turns may be are a bit unprofessional from a recording-technical point of view (of today), but they disturb your subtle and fine playing in any way.
I have enjoyed your performance a lot! Yes, it´s a performance of "good old school" and that´s exactly what it makes so unique and valuable (especially in times of today)!

With best regards
Andreas

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:40 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
musicusblau wrote:
The two page turns may be are a bit unprofessional from a recording-technical point of view (of today), but they disturb your subtle and fine playing in any way.
Yes that's what I thought :P

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:57 am
Posts: 320
Location: New York City
Hi David,

Your interpretation has a really nice ambiance and free spirit with ocassional overtones
of something more stark. This piece is gorgeous. Perhaps the tempo is a tiny bit uneven
after the opening section, but it is really beautifully played. I think the piano needs to be
tuned. Your technique is very relaxed all the way through producing a beautiful tone.
The mood is perfect throughout.

Thanks for sharing,
Kaila

_________________
musicrecovery


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Andreas,

Thanks for listening! And I appreciate your being enthused by my playing of this piece.

Yes, the late romantic piano literature is my favorite of all time. It's been a pleasure to play the music of severa these composers, some not as well known as others. I believe that the late romantics, carrying on the traditions of the earlier romantic composers, wisely ignored the modernists, composed extraordinary music, and conclusively proved that the possibilities of romanticism had not been exhausted, and supposedly leaving that genre bankrupt. Not at all! I am disappointed, however, by today's neo-romantics. I continue to seek out these composers to see if I can be inspired to play their piano music. Not much luck so far. :(

Back to Faure... I remember when I prepared this barcarolle and first played it for my teacher at the time, I told him to trust me that I had the correct notes. Because Faure's tonal centers shift very often, thereby affecting accidentals, I tried hard to avoid note reading errors. I also, at the end of my learning process, listened to Collard play it to see if any different notes jarred my ears, but his rendition didn't reveal any. There might have been a very few finger slips in my recording which were unintentional.

On the pedaling, I believe I did a pretty good job in that department overall. I'm glad it struck you the same way. Analog recording back then was different. I'm thinking that the third mic behind the two stereo mics (used to capture ambient sound) might have created the "swimming" sound that Monica mentioned.

Page turns--when I've tried to fix those, my edits are even worse!

[Yes, it´s a performance of "good old school" and that´s exactly what it makes so unique and valuable (especially in times of today)!]

I've given this some thought lately. Today there seems to be a fixation with correct notes. Of course, we all want the notes to be played correctly. But that seems to have been elevated to an art form, and has become the #1 priority of younger pianists (the recent Cliburn Competition being a good illustration). The old school great pianists like Serkin, Horowitz, Cortot, Rubinstein and Richter valued correct notes, but they also took big risks which often succeeded, but sometimes with the dropping of a note or two. Individuality and personality were integral of those performances. Today so much playing sounds like plain vanilla. Pianists often sound alike. My theory: 1) There is now a worship of the correct notes over all other elements of musicality and artistry. 2) The rise of the urtext edition has obliterated imaginative playing. Today pianists all buy and read from the same urtexts. In the 1900s there were many editions available which varied in terms of quality of editing. Some were more heavily edited than others, and the editing skills stretched from one end of the spectrum to the other. Not everyone was a Rafael Joseffy in editing Liszt, or Emil von Sauer in editing Brahms, or those who did the Paderewski Chopin editions. There were many editions to choose from then, and as a result, pianists sounded differently when they played. And going beyond that, pianists also allowed themselves to take a liberty in their interpretations now and then. Nowadays, it seems the urtext is the urtext--despite the fact that not one urtext edition has yet to be proven and pronounced flawless. I don't believe that making note perfection the highest priority and giving ourselves over to the urtexts does much for individuality in the performing art. I'm not advocating that we use poor editions; rather, that we know the good editions from the not so good. Otherwise, I cannot bring myself to believe that these existing trends will reverse already declining audience numbers and/or impel young people to attend piano recitals. Safe, plain vanilla renditions that don't highlight the emotional content of the music are boring.

Kind regards,

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Last edited by Rachfan on Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:44 am, edited 5 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Kaila,

I enjoyed reading your observations. Had I stayed with the piece a little longer, I think I could have ironed out those few wrinkles you mention. Back in the 1980s I had a lot of expenses, so the frequency of piano tuning suffered. Nowadays, the piano is tuned quarterly which seems to work out really well.

Thanks again.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:59 am
Posts: 268
Isn't the goal to play all the correct notes AND to have a well-thought-through, deeply felt interpretation?
I don't see those two as opposed in any way. Nothing about playing the right notes gets in the way of carrying off a good interpretation.
(If anything, *wrong* notes are an impediment to good interpretation as they are distracting to the performer.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi hreichgott,

I have no objection to correct notes. Accuracy has it's place in pianism. The problem is that so much attention goes into that one aspect such that the emotional content is lost which leads to boredom for the audience. Playing becomes mechanical rather than artful. I think the most recent Cliburn Competition was a sad commentary in that respect. For the most part, they all sounded alike. Of course, this trend is a boon to competition jurors. They can make easy eliminations based on a minor finger slip. How well the contestants know that, so cater to it.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
Quote:
I think the most recent Cliburn Competition was a sad commentary in that respect. For the most part, they all sounded alike. Of course, this trend is a boon to competition jurors. They can make easy eliminations based on a minor finger slip. How well the contestants know that, so cater to it.


Agree with you absolutely. That competition was indeed a sad commentary on the state of piano playing, even more so than in the past IMO. To take an example, one would of course have to impressed by Kholodenko getting up there and tossing off the Liszt Transcendentals, but on the other hand I don't think I've ever heard such vapid playing in my life, no grandeur or sense of theatricality, no risk taking. Those are pieces where somebody could miss bucketfuls of notes and I wouldn't care a whit if it had something to say -- a sense of majesty, a fire, or just plain Lisztian outrage. As it is, the contestants certainly got most of the notes, but everything else they did was just one big fat mistake after another to my ears.

Joe

_________________
Movie Blog: http://www.criticsloft.com
Classical Music Web Site: http://www.critics-ear.com
Youtube Piano Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Chopin849?feature=mhee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Joe,

Yes! You put it all so well. There was colorless playing, nothing rising to a magisterial level, and a lack of big romantic surges in the romantic piano literature being presented. But... some did well playing the correct notes. Perhaps in four years hence, there will be a rebirth of stylish playing. But you're right--given the trend and pattern of the last three Cliburn competitions, it might not become a reality.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 704
Location: Carbondale, IL
Hi David,

I had a listen to your interpretation of this rhapsodic Barcarolle. I enjoyed your performance a great deal. I haven't heard this piece before and the only barcarolle I've know is the famous one by Offenbach. I think you've managed to surmount some considerable challenges in this piece. The grace notes and frequent modulations. I like the tempo you have chosen here and the ending was a nice conclusion to this dreamlike piece. Like some other members have stated the sound quality could be better, but all in all, I'd say for the far greater part, you've done a fine job here!

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Riley,

Thanks for your kind words! Yes, the sound has been criticized, however in the 1980s that's what we had to work with. In those days I used a receiver, cassette tape deck, type IV metal tape (the best), and highly regarded Nakamichi small diaphragm electret condenser mics. To duplicate tapes, we used dubbing units where the master tape would play into the dubbed tape. (No CD burning at that time.) With the above equipment, power supply, mixer box, and cross-cabling everywhere, it took up a lot of room as compared to today's digital recorder with a matched pair of external stereo mics. All things considered, I believe this Faure to be a good recording. I think when I made it I was about 42. Today I think I'm a different pianist in some ways. Plus my Baldwin grand has since been rebuilt for the better.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Quote:
techneut wrote:
musicusblau wrote:
The two page turns may be are a bit unprofessional from a recording-technical point of view (of today), but they disturb your subtle and fine playing in any way.
Yes that's what I thought :P


One point for you! 8) I just forgot the word "don´t" before "disturb". :evil: :wink:

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Hi David,
thank you for your answer and detailed thoughts. (And sorry for my quite late reply.)

Quote:
I am disappointed, however, by today's neo-romantics. I continue to seek out these composers to see if I can be inspired to play their piano music. Not much luck so far. :(


That´s interesting. Which composers do you have in mind?

Quote:
Page turns--when I've tried to fix those, my edits are even worse!


Sorry, as I mentioned above, I have forgotten a word, I wanted to say: the page turns don´t disturb your performance in any way.

Quote:
[Yes, it´s a performance of "good old school" and that´s exactly what it makes so unique and valuable (especially in times of today)!]

I've given this some thought lately. Today there seems to be a fixation with correct notes. Of course, we all want the notes to be played correctly. But that seems to have been elevated to an art form, and has become the #1 priority of younger pianists (the recent Cliburn Competition being a good illustration). The old school great pianists like Serkin, Horowitz, Cortot, Rubinstein and Richter valued correct notes, but they also took big risks which often succeeded, but sometimes with the dropping of a note or two. Individuality and personality were integral of those performances. Today so much playing sounds like plain vanilla. Pianists often sound alike. My theory: 1) There is now a worship of the correct notes over all other elements of musicality and artistry. 2) The rise of the urtext edition has obliterated imaginative playing. Today pianists all buy and read from the same urtexts. In the 1900s there were many editions available which varied in terms of quality of editing. Some were more heavily edited than others, and the editing skills stretched from one end of the spectrum to the other. Not everyone was a Rafael Joseffy in editing Liszt, or Emil von Sauer in editing Brahms, or those who did the Paderewski Chopin editions. There were many editions to choose from then, and as a result, pianists sounded differently when they played. And going beyond that, pianists also allowed themselves to take a liberty in their interpretations now and then. Nowadays, it seems the urtext is the urtext--despite the fact that not one urtext edition has yet to be proven and pronounced flawless. I don't believe that making note perfection the highest priority and giving ourselves over to the urtexts does much for individuality in the performing art. I'm not advocating that we use poor editions; rather, that we know the good editions from the not so good. Otherwise, I cannot bring myself to believe that these existing trends will reverse already declining audience numbers and/or impel young people to attend piano recitals. Safe, plain vanilla renditions that don't highlight the emotional content of the music are boring.


I agree to that completely! I value the wholeness of expression and emotional content more than a correct note, too. But, of course, I also value the correct notes and give my best to play the pieces correctly. So, I have the same attitude like our great old pianists. :D

Kind regards,

Andreas

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:58 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
musicusblau wrote:
One point for you! 8) I just forgot the word "don´t" before "disturb". :evil: :wink:

Haha, I had that figured out. But it was too good to let it pass by, given my own allergy to audible page turns (used to be quilty of it myself in the past).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Ha ha! I've given Andreas a full pardon for the missing "don't". No harm done.

David :lol:

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:55 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Hehe :) I think I'll add a new forum rule, which goes like Anything you write will be used against you. As will anything you don't write.
Actually, that would be a nice signature line for me :idea:

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Where there are many countries represented here, I think it's helpful to delve into vocabulary now and then.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:21 pm
Posts: 139
Very beautiful playing of a very beautiful piece; the dynamics in particular seem to swell and fade with the limping rhythm of the barcarolle even from the opening bars. Expressive touch and rubato as usual, and the page-turns and honkey-tonkiness of the piano doesn't detract from those one bit. Enjoyed listening to it a lot!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Hi affinity,

Thanks for listening and commenting. I'm glad you enjoyed hearing this piece.,

The rising and ebbing dynamics follow a technique of "dynamic contours", that is to say, there are crescendos and diminuendos following the actual contour of the melodic line. It cannot be applied to all pieces, of course, but where it is appropriate it can be very effective. This is even more true if the composer has given only sparse dynamic indicators, leaving much up to the pianist. There are very many opportunities to use rubato too, as you heard. This barcarolle is a great piece.

This recording is from the 1980s, but the piano was rebuilt in 2007. I don't know if you've every played Baldwin grands, but they're very fine instruments (that is until manufacture was shifted over to China a few years ago, so now the jury is out). Through most of the 20th century, in the U.S. Baldwin was the NY Steinway's chief rival.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Techneut wrote:
techneut wrote:
Hehe :) I think I'll add a new forum rule, which goes like Anything you write will be used against you. As will anything you don't write.


So, write or not to write, that is the question! :!: :lol:

Btw, Chris, the 3 new pieces for clarinet and piano from me and Michael Schönfelder, wouldn´t you think, they could be a nice "feed" for the main page? :wink:

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
To write or not to write... well, it's a lighter subject than To be, or not to be. :lol:

I really enjoyed the three pieces for piano and clarinet that you submitted in collaboration with Mr. Schonfelder, Andreas.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:07 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
musicusblau wrote:
Btw, Chris, the 3 new pieces for clarinet and piano from me and Michael Schönfelder, wouldn´t you think, they could be a nice "feed" for the main page? :wink:

A bit OT here... but not a bad idea. I've created a Chamber Music page and a news item on the main page about it.

Whether this is the right thing to do, I don't know. Our way of categorizing pieces is getting totally arbitrary now. I'm not at all happy about it.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Techneut wrote:
Quote:
A bit OT here... but not a bad idea. I've created a Chamber Music page and a news item on the main page about it.


That´s a nice idea IMHO, thanks anyway for having put them up. :)

Quote:
Whether this is the right thing to do, I don't know. Our way of categorizing pieces is getting totally arbitrary now. I'm not at all happy about it.


Have you put them only in the category "chamber music" or are they to find also under the name of the composer? (Ah, well, I can find that out myself.) I think, both ways should be possible, don´t you think? (Sorry, that I have stayed OT.)

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Quote:
To write or not to write... well, it's a lighter subject than To be, or not to be. :lol:


But very philosophical, too, because it depends on what you write to decide if you be or be not (at least that was it, what Chris said, isn´t it?). :wink: :lol:

Quote:
I really enjoyed the three pieces for piano and clarinet that you submitted in collaboration with Mr. Schonfelder, Andreas.


Thank you very much, David. :D

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faure, 6th Barcarolle, Op. 70 in E flat
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: U.S.A.
Quote:
But very philosophical, too, because it depends on what you write to decide if you be or be not (at least that was it, what Chris said, isn´t it?). :wink: :lol:


Yes, I get your meaning. The good news is that they've been put into the archive. I'm glad of that. It might be that the ideal way would be to have an Audition Room sub-page for chamber music only which could also be cross referenced by artist and composer. But maybe the existing software will not allow that option. I think that by putting the recordings on the front page at least gives them good visibility. So it is a viable solution.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group