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 Post subject: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Hi!

My piano just got tunned, so I decided to record a piece I've been playing lately. Here for evaluation.
This miniature is in allegro de sonata form, which is related to my research: form in Brahms' piano music.

In case you want to see the video (same audio), here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNNXoNNHhQk&feature=plcp

Thanks,

Luís

Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 No.2(6:37)

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:43 pm 
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There's something strange with this mp3. It seems to start somewhere in the middle, and also there are strange breaks later on. Can you check it ?

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Hi, Chris!

Now I'm at work, I'll check it later when I arrive home (I can't download MP3s here... :roll: )

But it's strage. The audio was working, I listened to it completely. Maybe something happened when I converted into 192 kbps or when I uploaded it to PS.
I'll check.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:56 pm 
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luissarro wrote:
(I can't download MP3s here... :roll: )

That use to be like that at my office. Bloody annoying. But for some reason it's allowed now. Or they just forgot to apply the rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:50 pm 
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You lucky!

Here Orkut (old Google social network) is blocked, but Facebook is allowed. \o/
Fortunately, I work only 6 hours a day. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:48 am 
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hm... there is a problem indeed. Apparently the END of the file overwrote the beginning. I checked the original file, it was okay. The problem happened when I copied it to a pen drive. Another Windows 8 bug?? :shock:

Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 No.2(6:37)

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Very nice, Luis. A few wrong (or perhaps muddied by the pedal) bass notes near the beginning (on both iterations), but probably not very noticeable.

I'd like to point out to Monica and others that this piece contains both "mezza voce" and "sotto voce" markings, and I think Luis handles them quite well. There was a discussion on the "Technique" board last year about the difference.

A few more notes:
-- nice misterioso
-- the second time before the repeat the D triad is lost
-- wonderful effects in the piu cantando and mezza voce
-- the sotto voce begins very well. In measure 9-10, and 11-12, have you ever tried playing the fourth beat into the first as detached quarter notes (and observe the rests in the LH by lifting the pedal). It provides a subtle "punch".
The composer indicates this a little by using the quarter notes instead of the dotted halves that we've seen in the previous 8 measures.
-- Everyone ritards at the molto crescendo that follows, even though it's not marked. Is this a tradition that I don't know about?
-- Nice rubato in the pp section before the final "lunga".
-- In the last "mezza voce/misterioso" section the quarter notes are not as detached as they were the first time, and I think detached is better (as well as being marked). Gives it a more "misterioso" feeling instead of just being soft.
-- The triplets into the duples at the end are not convincing. Maybe a little accent on the E-flat in the triplet would help?

Good recording. I've known this piece for 40 years which is why I got a little detailed.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Ok, this is off topic, but since this post will have the attention of both Chris and Luis, let me point out that today's composer - Stenhammar - has no biography.
I mention it here because the two artists that have recorded Stenhammar's works are Chris and Luis.
Maybe one of you was going to do it but forgot.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:29 pm 
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StuKautsch wrote:
Ok, this is off topic, but since this post will have the attention of both Chris and Luis, let me point out that today's composer - Stenhammar - has no biography.
I mention it here because the two artists that have recorded Stenhammar's works are Chris and Luis.
Maybe one of you was going to do it but forgot.

There are lots of composers without a bio, and it's a bit lame that my composer-of-the-day script can't recognize that. I don't seem to find the time and motivation to compile bios anymore these days. We've repeatedly asked for volunteers for this, but few people have come forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:59 pm 
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StuKautsch wrote:
Very nice, Luis. A few wrong (or perhaps muddied by the pedal) bass notes near the beginning (on both iterations), but probably not very noticeable.

I'd like to point out to Monica and others that this piece contains both "mezza voce" and "sotto voce" markings, and I think Luis handles them quite well. There was a discussion on the "Technique" board last year about the difference.

A few more notes:
-- nice misterioso
-- the second time before the repeat the D triad is lost
-- wonderful effects in the piu cantando and mezza voce
-- the sotto voce begins very well. In measure 9-10, and 11-12, have you ever tried playing the fourth beat into the first as detached quarter notes (and observe the rests in the LH by lifting the pedal). It provides a subtle "punch".
The composer indicates this a little by using the quarter notes instead of the dotted halves that we've seen in the previous 8 measures.
-- Everyone ritards at the molto crescendo that follows, even though it's not marked. Is this a tradition that I don't know about?
-- Nice rubato in the pp section before the final "lunga".
-- In the last "mezza voce/misterioso" section the quarter notes are not as detached as they were the first time, and I think detached is better (as well as being marked). Gives it a more "misterioso" feeling instead of just being soft.
-- The triplets into the duples at the end are not convincing. Maybe a little accent on the E-flat in the triplet would help?

Good recording. I've known this piece for 40 years which is why I got a little detailed.


Hi, Stu!

Thanks for your detailed analysis (though I don't understand some of them... when you say measures 9-10, you're counting from the development section?).
I don't think there are any wrong notes. But there are 3 or 4 slips (hitting 2 keys instead of just one. =D ) which I left out.

About the ritard on the "crescendo"... I think you're talking about the E major chord in the development section, right before the recapitulation, is it?
If so, I don't believe this is a "tradition". I face this ritard as a rhetorical gesture to convince the listener of the E major chord which first appeared in the development section. I don't know exactly the function of this E major chord (I should think more... at first, it seems to be the Dominant of the Dominant of the Dominant !! but maybe I can find a better explanation for this chord... anyway, harmonically speaking, it's far from the Gm tonic, so, considering the musical discourse, there is good reason, in my opinion, to call the listener attention to it. That's the reason for the ritard, I think. Other performers may find different rhetorical gesture for this passage, but it seems that a ritard is pretty common, from what you said.

I consider two main things while interpreting: 1) style (which has to do with historical evidence) and 2) rhetoric, which is how to convince the listener of the musical abstract elements of the score (this one has to do with analysing the musical discourse).

Thanks again for the analysis.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Luis,
Sorry about the measure numbers. My edition (Peters) does not provide them, so when I refer to a "sotto voce" section and then reference measures 9-10, I'm referring to measures 9-10 of the sotto voce section..
The "molto crescendo" is a few measures after that (in the Peters, anyway - I suppose different editions could have different dynamic markings), and you're right, it's the one heading into the big E Major chord.

Chris,
I'm not volunteering, but let me look around for bio material on this Stenhammar. I had never heard of him and now my curiosity's up. First I'll listen to a little of his music to see if my curiosity stays up :)

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Stenhammar is amazing!

It's a pitty I have to play so much stuff (there will be a little recital of Brahms miniatures in sonata form in my college) and I don't have time to study his music... =\

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Hello, Luis,

I have to agree with Stu about the opening bars. There is something there, but it is soon over, as you gain confidence. The rest of the piece is quite enjoyable

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:55 pm 
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richard66 wrote:
Hello, Luis,

I have to agree with Stu about the opening bars. There is something there, but it is soon over, as you gain confidence. The rest of the piece is quite enjoyable


Thanks, Richard.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Haven't played or heard much Brahms. Will have to find some music of his to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:53 am 
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That is a very enjoyable performance with lots of nice things. I'm sure there are some tiny slips and things that could be improved but it is very well played and good by any standard. I'll put this on the site tonight (time permitting, I'm extremely busy working on the new house).

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Hi, Chris!

techneut wrote:
I'm sure there are some tiny slips and things that could be improved

Yes. There is always space for improvement.
And I decided to leave 3 or 4 slips in the recording.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:00 pm 
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This is up on the site.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:01 am 
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Luis,
Very fine playing; I enjoyed it very much.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Thank you, Eddy.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Chris wrote:
There are lots of composers without a bio, and it's a bit lame that my composer-of-the-day script can't recognize that. I don't seem to find the time and motivation to compile bios anymore these days. We've repeatedly asked for volunteers for this, but few people have come forward.
Hey Chris, I'd be happy to volunteer to draft a bio from time to time when I can. Perhaps you can give me the name of one of the more "pressing" composers to start with?

Matt

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:28 pm 
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mwyman1 wrote:
I'd be happy to volunteer to draft a bio from time to time when I can. Perhaps you can give me the name of one of the more "pressing" composers to start with?
Most of the bio-less composers seem to be the ones I submitted. Like Bowen, Mayerl, Moeran, Rubbra, Rodrigo, Respighi, Tveitt, Takemitsu, Vauhan Williams, and most glaring, Hamelin. There may be some I've missed. Pick anyone you like.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:11 am 
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Hi Luis,

It's been many years since I've played this Rhapsody, but I remember it well. I believe you capture the spirit of the piece very well and play it with conviction.

I believe I read elsewhere that you have a different piano now. It sounded very good in your recording.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Thanks, David!

Yes, it is a new piano. It is a Yamaha C1 (but within 2 years, I will exchange it for a Yamaha C2, or maybe a used half grand Steinway, I still don't know...)

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Hi Luis,

It is very nice the way you create an interest in the counter melodies in the left hand.
The left hand outlines are balanced beautifully and supportive.The dynamics are excellent.

Thank you so much for sharing. Everything is performed in a frank and forthright manner.
The interpretation is original and you did not overdramatize anything.

Kaila Rochelle

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Hi, Kaila!

Thanks for taking your time to listen and comment!

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Hi Luis, I'm back..... :)
Have I listened to this already? I think I have, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it sounds very nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Thanks for re-listening!

Though I think you're trying to rub it in, talking about your vacation while we were working. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:15 pm 
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luissarro wrote:
Thanks for re-listening!

Though I think you're trying to rub it in, talking about your vacation while we were working. :lol:


But I haven't talked about it at all. And besides that, how many times have you told me that you are going to the beach.... :P

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Hi Felipe! (or should I call you Luis??)
This piece is one of a few solo pieces by Brahms which I know quite well :)
You did a good job! I felt an unique sensitivity in your recording.
But for improving I'd like to point out that in your recording the LH is too prominent compared to RH, the pulse you give the bass seems to prevent more fluency in this piece. And many outer (and higher) notes in RH are too weak.
Nevertheless, I heard a very sincere and honest Brahms!! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:18 pm 
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hi, Hye Jin!

thanks for listening!

you're partially right about the basses. in fact, I exaggerated the bass a little for two reasons:
1) I had been reading about how Brahms used to play, and he used to emphasize basses too much
2) I wanted to emphasize a thematic motiv in the bass (37", 39") which is the same of the main melody

but then recently I found out these were not working.

I said you're partially right, because I can blame my piano for that too! :lol:
those new Yamahas I have played usually have strong bass and weak treble. but I think the reason for that is that they are NEW, and have been played only a little. I think the more I play, the more the trebles become stronger (or maybe I'm just getting used to it... :roll: )

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