Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:39 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Carbondale, IL
I have been practicing two pieces over the past week, an old piece by my teacher and a piece by Schoenberg. In terms of the music idiom, the two pieces are quite similar. I would not describe it as atonal. Many composers dislike the term because the prefix a- (for ex. averse, atypical) means "not." Therefore, if atonal means "without tone," it doesn't describe the type of music that is not in a key, per se. These pieces have tones, to me they simply are not comparable to something by Mozart or Bach that is in a key, and has very few non-diatonic tones I have created videos of these two pieces:

Music Videos:

No. 1 from Stemper's "Four Piano Pieces" (1976)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uITDIm6ry4k

No. 2 from Schoenberg's "Six Little Piano Pieces" (1911)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnlpZ3JO_Is&feature=relmfu

Audio Files:

Schoenberg - Six Little Piano Pieces Op. 19 - No. 2: Langsam (1:10)

The audio files are the same as each video soundtrack.

Enjoy,

Riley

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Last edited by pianoman342 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Hi Riley,
First "atonal" does not mean "without tone," rather it means "without tonality," tonality meaning following the hierarchical relationship of the scale degrees and the functional harmony associated with it. These two works are atonal. This is not however the same as saying that they are 12-tone, which the Schoenberg is not (by about 10 years). I'm away from my score of the Schoenberg, so can't be sure but I think you did a good job. I don't know the other at all.

Keep going forward!
Regards,
Eddy

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Carbondale, IL
Hi Eddy,

Thanks for listening. Now that I listen back to other recordings of the Schonberg No. 2, I think I have played it too slow (the score says "langsam" but no specific bpm).

In general, I agree with your assessment. The term "tonality" refers to functional harmony, a piece that has a tonic and a key signature. Both of these pieces do not contain any sharps or flats (for a key signature). But to me it is the different between artwork in black and white the same in color. One is not better than the other, right? you don't refer to black and white paintings as acolor paintings :lol:

My music history textbook has it as 1923 when Schoenberg first developed the 12-tone method of composing.

I am curious what you think of this type of music?

Regards,

Riley

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9534
Location: Netherlands
They sound like well played (nice dynamics in both pieces !) though I can't really judge, not knowing the music. The Schoenberg piece somewhat reminds me of 'Dawn' from Bartok's Easy Pieces. Maybe it's the calm legato way you play it (Andy Lee's recording on the site is far more quirky). I wonder of one of these composers had heard the others' piece. Very good to venture into this kind of repertoire ! These can surely go on the site (Stemper in the Various section).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:58 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Atlanta, GA
Riley - thank you for posting these very interesting pieces. I really wish I could get into this sort of music (atonal, etc) more, but I must admit I appreciate it much more than I enjoy it.

It seems to me that you did a great job with both recordings, and I did enjoy them MUCH more with the visuals on YouTube than as audio by themselves. It's probably just like anything else - the more I learn about composers such as Schoenberg and expose myself to their music, the more I'll get from it. Certainly my own shortcomings here I feel, not yours!

Keep up the great work!

Matt

_________________
Matthew Wyman
And today the great Yertle, that Marvelous he, Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see. - Dr. Suess


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
pianoman342 wrote:
I am curious what you think of this type of music?
Riley, like liver pâté and escargot, I like it in limited quantities. :)

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Carbondale, IL
@ Chris

I had a listen to your recording of Dawn by Bartok, I can hear the similarity, wonder if he was influenced by Schoenberg, though if my memory serves me weren't the 10 Easy Pieces adapted from folk songs? And I listened to Andy Lee's recording, he does plays the running eighths staccato, and Chiara Bertoglio's recordings is the same. I talked to my teacher today and he was happy to hear my rendition, but said there were a few parts that I played wrong so I would rather that piece not go on the site, if you could put the schoenberg piece on the site I would appreciate it.

@ Matt

I am the same way, some new music I have trouble enjoying, and sometimes for me it takes several listenings for me to really comprehend the work in its entirety. Thanks for listening.

@ Eddy

I don't know what pâté is, but I understand escargot to be snails. Gross! I think the only circumstances I would eat a snail is if someone offered me a million dollars to! :lol:

Riley

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9534
Location: Netherlands
pianoman342 wrote:
I think the only circumstances I would eat a snail is if someone offered me a million dollars to! :lol:

Hehe, you don't have to eat them raw, you know :D

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:12 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9534
Location: Netherlands
pianoman342 wrote:
I had a listen to your recording of Dawn by Bartok, I can hear the similarity, wonder if he was influenced by Schoenberg, though if my memory serves me weren't the 10 Easy Pieces adapted from folk songs?
Only some of them. Actually I'm not sure if he used original folk material or made up his own (some composers can do that).

pianoman342 wrote:
I talked to my teacher today and he was happy to hear my rendition, but said there were a few parts that I played wrong so I would rather that piece not go on the site, if you could put the schoenberg piece on the site I would appreciate it.
Sure, but not before you've done your bit. Please re-upload with correct file names and ID3 tags, as described in this sticky topic:
http://pianosociety.com/new/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5115&p=51530

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Carbondale, IL
Quote:
Only some of them. Actually I'm not sure if he used original folk material or made up his own (some composers can do that).


That would be a cool skill to have 8)

Quote:
Sure, but not before you've done your bit. Please re-upload with correct file names and ID3 tags, as described in this sticky topic:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5115&p=51530


I have found the ID3 tagging feature on Windows Media Player. One interesting thing I noticed in the tag editor is next to genre there are a number of moods you can select for a file: Party, Angry and Sunday Brunch to name a few. What is a sunday brunch mood :roll: I left the mood blank :?

Now to practice and record Evocation, an Invention, a Haydn piece and after that, a work by Mr. Pfaul. It may take till next year to get this all done :P

Riley

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:05 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9534
Location: Netherlands
pianoman342 wrote:
I have found the ID3 tagging feature on Windows Media Player. One interesting thing I noticed in the tag editor is next to genre there are a number of moods you can select for a file: Party, Angry and Sunday Brunch to name a few. What is a sunday brunch mood :roll: I left the mood blank :?

That is good :) However you also did not fill the all-important Name tag (or rather it is filled with the file name). I would insist that everybody gets this right from now on, as described in the mentioned sticky topic.

pianoman342 wrote:
Now to practice and record Evocation, an Invention, a Haydn piece and after that, a work by Mr. Pfaul. It may take till next year to get this all done :P
Better hurry up then :) Good luck with Evocation, you "only" have to compete with Francois de Larrard now, as I have withdrawn my version.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Carbondale, IL
Quote:
That is good However you also did not fill the all-important Name tag (or rather it is filled with the file name). I would insist that everybody gets this right from now on, as described in the mentioned sticky topic.


I think I have it right now, third time has to be the charm :)

Quote:
Better hurry up then Good luck with Evocation, you "only" have to compete with Francois de Larrard now, as I have withdrawn my version.


It will be quite a challenge to compete with Mr. Larrard :!:

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9534
Location: Netherlands
pianoman342 wrote:
I think I have it right now, third time has to be the charm :)


Nope, this is not right yet. You left out your name and the year, and did not put the actual title (Six Pieces) in the Name tag, that should be

Schoenberg - Six Little Piano Pieces Op. 19 - No. 2: Langsam

It seems like getting people to do this right may be more work than fixing the tags ourselves. But it's become a matter of principle now.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:12 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8480
Poor Riley.... :)

Sorry, Riley, but Chris is right in that we really need people to make correct tags and titles so as to save us the time from having to do it.
And sorry again for my delay in listening to your recordings here, but now I finally found a bit of time. I don't have really much to say about the first piece, except that your space images are perfect. I always call this kind of music 'space music'. I liked the Schoenberg piece best. I never used to like him before, but then I heard all six pieces from this set and printed them out. They're sitting on my piano, but alas I have no time to play them. Someday.... Anyway, nice playing and nice videos! :)

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schoenberg and Stemper
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Carbondale, IL
Chris,

Quote:
It seems like getting people to do this right may be more work than fixing the tags ourselves. But it's become a matter of principle now.


I have made the changes. Should have all the information this time!

Monica,

Quote:
Sorry, Riley, but Chris is right in that we really need people to make correct tags and titles so as to save us the time from having to do it.


I understand, and redoing the ID3 tags is good because now I know exactly what to label for a future recording :)

Quote:
I don't have really much to say about the first piece, except that your space images are perfect. I always call this kind of music 'space music'. I liked the Schoenberg piece best. I never used to like him before, but then I heard all six pieces from this set and printed them out. They're sitting on my piano, but alas I have no time to play them. Someday.... Anyway, nice playing and nice videos!
\

Thanks for the compliment and for listening! I am glad you like the visuals for the video. I think this type of music is more abstract and free floating, what seems to me to be how space is. Of course, I have never been anywhere but earth, just my interpretation 8)

Riley

Schoenberg - Six Little Piano Pieces Op. 19 - No. 2: Langsam (1:10)

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group