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 Post subject: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:21 pm 
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I am in the process of re-recording my set of Clementine's sonatinas mostly because the sound quality on my first version is pretty weird and my playing on some of the particular pieces is not that good, either. I won't bore everybody by posting all of my redo's, but this one is my favorite sonatina of the set and thought it couldn't hurt to put it here. I used no pedal at all and only touched the soft pedal briefly one time.

Clementi - Sonatina Op.36 No.4 - 1 : Con spirito

Clementi - Sonatina Op.36 No.4 - 2 : Andante con espressione

Clementi - Sonatina Op.36 No.4 - 3 : Rondo: Allegro vivace

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:21 am 
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Solid performance, but I feel it's a little too safe in terms of dynamics for the first and third movement. I'm sure the piece would benefit from a few touches/ideas here and there, you could put in a crescendo from 1:47 to 1:49 and a change in dynamics for the louder when you repeat the measure at 2:09 once more for the first movement. As for the rondo, from 01:01-01:03 you could play the second repetition softer than the first and other related stuff. In general, when a measure is repeated, I think one should vary the dynamics in order to sustain musical interest.

The second movement is pretty exquisite as a whole however, though I would personally play the Bb bass note softer.


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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Thank you for your comments, Affinity. You are absolutely correct in that one should do something different on repeats, like alter the dynamics. I usually do that. This time around I didn't think it was appropriate given the way the music is written. Also, yes, there are some dynamic markings in my score but we have to keep in mind that they must be editorial and Clementi probably did not write them in. Or if he did, he had no way of knowing that future pianos would be capable of producing a much wider range of dynamics than his 'current' piano did at the time. Still, I appreciate what you wrote, as it reminds me to pay attention to these things, so thanks again. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Bravo, I enjoyed listening to your new recordings, sounds very stereo and light. Excellent work.


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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:50 pm 
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johnmar78 wrote:
Bravo, I enjoyed listening to your new recordings, sounds very stereo and light. Excellent work.

Thank you, John! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:33 am 
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Location: Milano (Italia)
Bar 42 (1'47") in the I mov. is 4/4? Why?

Bar 31 of III mov.: the first note in the r.h. should be a G, not F.

II mov. is "Andante espressivo". If you search for this piece on iTunes, you can see a duration range between 1'49" and 2'17". Yours is 1'14". Too fast. I'm not agree at all with your staccato in the beginning. The word "espressivo" would suggest a legato, in my opinion (with pedal, of course).

In the whole Sonatina you make too many speed changes, not musically justified. For example: in the Finale you every time strike up the main theme faster, and then you slow down. In the "Andante" you tend to speed up the semiquavers in the r.h. It seems you want to escape.

However, I get some hints of the "spirito clementino" in the first and in the third movement. Not in the second movement, definitely out of style, and not "espressivo".

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Thank you very much for pointing out my errors, Claudio. That spot where I made it 4/4 time - I have no idea why I did that! :oops:
Where I played an F instead of a G - Oh man, I've been playing an F my whole life! :oops: :oops:

As far as my tempo in the 2nd movement: It's just the way I feel the piece. I guess I can go a little bit slower, but my pedal usage and articulation are what I prefer; I don't think 'espressivo' necessarily means legato and I don't think one should use much pedal in these sonatinas. My 3rd movement tempo - I like to play the opening theme a little quickly because I think it makes the piece sound more playful. I didn't realize I slowed down in other places, though, and I'm still not sure that I did.

Well, anyway, looks like I'll have to re-re-record this one because of those two mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:09 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
That spot where I made it 4/4 time - I have no idea why I did that! :oops:

It probably felt like a good idea at the time :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:00 pm 
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techneut wrote:
pianolady wrote:
That spot where I made it 4/4 time - I have no idea why I did that! :oops:

It probably felt like a good idea at the time :lol:


I guess so.... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:18 am 
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Wonderful! Got me into a cheerful mode in the boring hotel I stay at during this night (didn't spot the mistakes mentioned) . Completing the entire op.36 cycle!

Definitely deserves a tweet :).

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:52 pm 
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robert wrote:
Wonderful! Got me into a cheerful mode in the boring hotel I stay at during this night (didn't spot the mistakes mentioned) . Completing the entire op.36 cycle!

Definitely deserves a tweet :).


Thank you for listening, Robert! :D

I hope there is a nice mini-bar in your hotel room....haha.

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:18 pm 
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I was not in a boring hotel - which happens to me sometimes too - but in my comfortable new home, and we had pleasure to listen your sonata while dining with my wife. Light but nice music, elegantly played... Congratulations, Monica !

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:55 am 
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Nice playing, but I'm inclined to agree with Claudio about the second movement. The movement sounds fine in isolation but taking the work as a global whole I think it would provide more contrast if you took it a bit slower. As it is, it sounds almost as if there are three fast movements (or at least two fast movements with a scherzo in between). As for pedal, perhaps a few touches do fit an espressivo marking; I wouldn't go overboard with it, and I like the way you've kept things clean in the outer movements.


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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Thank you, Francois! :)
Thank you, Andrew! :) Since now two people think my second movement is too fast, then I will re-record it.

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:46 am 
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Hi Monica,

I listened to all three movements. Sounded very good to me! Your playing has crisp articulation and evenness, changes in touch, dynamic contrasts, and good overall control. I enjoyed listening.

P.S. I didn't listen with the score. The story: Back around 1955/56 I played three of these Op. 36 Sonatinas, Nos. 2, 3 and 6. I recall that when I was 11 or 12 and had wrapped up No. 6, I threw the Clementi out. Regrettably it's true. :oops: :roll: But then I had to deal with Haydn.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:38 am 
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Hi Monica,

I listened to your redo of this Clementi Sonatina. I have not heard it before, and think you play it well. I agree that the 2nd movement was a little on the slow side, but the passage work and tempo of all three were very much under control, and those fast pieces... you must really have to focus and practice these to play them so fast and clear! It is an inspiration to me :)

Enjoyed listening to these,

Riley

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Hi David, and thank you! :)
I was playing these sonatinas when I was 11 or 12 too! My second teacher introduced me to them and I really loved the whole set; I couldn’t wait to get on to the next one. That’s one reason I think it’s important to change teachers every now and then. Each teacher has his or her own agenda and may not like certain repertoire and therefore does not feel like teaching it to their students. Did you really throw out your Clementi book? I’m actually still using mine today, which has my old piano teacher’s notes in it. Hope Haydn was kind to you… :P


Hi Riley, and thank you too! :)
I think you meant that my second movement is too fast. I’ll have a quiet house to myself tomorrow, so I plan on doing nothing all day but recording (re-recording) this sonatina, as well as all the others too. Regarding my playing: I’ve been playing these sonatinas for a long time, so it’s not too difficult to just sit down and play them, plus they are not too difficult. Except when recording…. :wink: :x :)

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Hi Monica,

Yeah, I actually pitched out the Clementi. From a musical styles point of view, I believe I was an entrenched neo-romantic even at that age. :lol: I slightly favored Clementi though over Bach which to me was pure drudgery.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:16 pm 
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At present our daughter is paying second piano to the rondò, if this will do.

I like your rendition of the outer movements, but I do feel that the middle one could have been... well... more expressive, though not necesarily slower.

These I never played, as I never played Beethoven's sonatinas. It might be due not to a teacher who did not like them, but to the fact I began playing as an old man (that is, considering all pianist seem to start playing while still donning nappies!) and I was all of 18.

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:24 pm 
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over Bach which to me was pure drudgery.


:shock: David! ... Say it's not so :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Rachfan wrote:
Hi Monica,

Yeah, I actually pitched out the Clementi. From a musical styles point of view, I believe I was an entrenched neo-romantic even at that age. :lol: I slightly favored Clementi though over Bach which to me was pure drudgery.
David


I hear you, David! Although, back when I was young I actually liked the little Bach preludes, the ones without figues.

richard66 wrote:
I like your rendition of the outer movements, but I do feel that the middle one could have been... well... more expressive, though not necesarily slower.


Hi Richard and thank you for listening. :) Ok I will strive for more expression when I make my recording.

richard wrote:
It might be due not to a teacher who did not like them, but to the fact I began playing as an old man (that is, considering all pianist seem to start playing while still donning nappies!) and I was all of 18.


Not me, I've never donned a nappy (I don't think...what is that, anyway... :lol: ).

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:46 am 
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Hi Joe,

Yes, it's true. I enjoy hearing others play Bach, but I dislike playing it myself. Due to the annual National Piano Playing Auditions (which I did for 10 years as a kid), there were stylistic period requirements for the National and International levels, and obviously Baroque was part of that. I recall doing pieces from the Two-Part Inventions and later from the WTC Book I in order to comply. Fortunately I was able to skip the Sinfonias and Suites, and was below the level of having to play a Partita. Nonetheless, every year I had a balanced and well-prepared repertoire to offer, as my first teacher ensured that I was a "well-rounded pianist", at least in my early days. I always got very high ratings from the adjudicators. In regards to Clementi, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert, I believe I paid my dues. So I'm content to leave Baroque and Viennese Classical music to those who really love those genres and show it in their performances. I enjoy the Romantic era music, except that so much of it is overplayed. I like playing Chopin and Liszt, but not so much Mendelssohn, Schumann and Brahms although I've played a good number of their works too. Now, at 67, I'm far more acutely aware of that old saying, "So much repertoire and so little time." So rather than generalize, I specialize now in Late Romantic music which truly motivates me to do my recording projects. It's the period that really excites me, although occasionally I'll do an impressionistic piece, as that music appeals to me too. I don't think it's at all unusual for many older pianists to work in a desired niche.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:33 am 
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I've always liked Clementi too. What's not to like about his music, one could ask. I also favored him over Bach - in fact as a youth I favored everything over Bach whereas now I favor Bach over everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:42 am 
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pianolady wrote:
robert wrote:
Wonderful! Got me into a cheerful mode in the boring hotel I stay at during this night (didn't spot the mistakes mentioned) . Completing the entire op.36 cycle!

Definitely deserves a tweet :).


Thank you for listening, Robert! :D

I hope there is a nice mini-bar in your hotel room....haha.

It is but I never touches the minibars! A rule I made many years ago.

Though, we stayed out pretty late after a visit to a fancy restaurant. Then, as I was the host, I had to stay to fix the bill in the bar for the youngsters so it got a bit late. But very interesting to get to know Japanese culture much better. Sorry, totally off topic ;).

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 Post subject: Re: Clementi - Sonatina Op. 36, No. 4
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:05 pm 
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robert wrote:
pianolady wrote:

I hope there is a nice mini-bar in your hotel room....haha.

It is but I never touches the minibars! A rule I made many years ago.

Though, we stayed out pretty late after a visit to a fancy restaurant. Then, as I was the host, I had to stay to fix the bill in the bar for the youngsters so it got a bit late. But very interesting to get to know Japanese culture much better. Sorry, totally off topic ;).


That's okay - I haven't gone too far OT in awhile, so it was about time for someone else to so it. :P

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