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 Post subject: Chopin - Mazurkas Op.7
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:32 pm 
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The Op.7 Mazurkas as recorded today. No.5 is a bit uninspired but I don't really know what to make of that little trifle :roll:

Chopin - Mazurka Op.7 No.1 in B flat major
Chopin - Mazurka Op.7 No.2 in A minor
Chopin - Mazurka Op.7 No.3 in F minor
Chopin - Mazurka Op.7 No.4 in A flat major
Chopin - Mazurka Op.7 No.5 in C major

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:56 am 
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I listened to all Mazurkas and all they are note wise properly, rarely maybe some lh notes missing or a little slip in 7/3. So it is profound played. You let the dance origin come through pretty strong, and there is nothing against to say. For instance the sharp accentuated notes in 7/1 gives the piece much pointedness what I really like on that place.

However personally I prefer a more lyrical and expressive playing in general for Chopin, also and especially in his Mazurkas, so also in those 5 here. Especially 7/2 is for my taste very, very far from beeing a dance, instead more introverted (from the composition, IMHO). Maybe I am a bit biased by listening to professional recordings here too so unconcious one reflects how the masters of the art interpret.

Also, Chopin did not skimp with expression markings. I know that I myself am often too careless and better should take the expression markings more to heart. In these Mazurkas you could consider them also way more, e.g. 7/5 could sound a bit more interesting that way. Why not take just a bit more time to work on what you like to express with a certain Mazurka? You once told me, playing the right notes is only the first step. Yes, and I will not say that you do nothing more. No, it seems to me that you now play already softer here and there as in some former recordings, so you do something for expression. It could be just a bit more for Chopin, more expressive, lyrical, yearning, romantique - only personal opinion, and I also cannot give arguments about this opinion :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:16 pm 
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Thanks Olaf. I know you don't like my bright-eyed Mazurka style much and consider it expressionless. Anyway we have several other good pianists here (you, Roberto, Leonald) who can provide the more lyrical and yearning alternatives. So there may yet be something for everybody.

I doubt if these would come out much different (except for perhaps more technical polish) if I spent more time on them. Maybe I am not enough of a dreamer for Chopin, and should stick to Bach :?

And whether you believe it or not, the dynamics DO get flatted by the recording. Could be I need to look into the Edirol settings to see if something is wrong there.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:56 pm 
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Hi there. Thanks for the Mazurka morning.

7/1 - I like your nice, lilting style in this. Trills were good too. Something I have in my score that you obviously do not: On the C part (sotto voce.) I have one quarter note b-flat trill before both hands come in. Also in that section, I feel you rushed the rubato a bit in your left hand.

7/2 - This sounded fine to me. Probably because I play it the same. :)

7/3 - Your voicing was good here. I think this one is kind of neat - those low, left hand parts do something to me. And it must be nice to have big hands - your rolled LH chords sounded very effortless.

7/4 - This one is weird to me. Your playing was fine, although it goes so fast I could hardly follow it.

7/5 - Yes, this one is weird too, But I think you played it just a tad too fast. I have a marking of dotted half note = 60. You were a bit faster. And if you slow it down, (just a little) your left hand may hit all the notes of the chords better and we can also hear and appreciated the melody line and rhythm more. One thing I don't get is the end. Does your score say to go back and repeat some of the first line?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:58 pm 
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techneut wrote:
I know you don't like my bright-eyed Mazurka style much and consider it expressionless.


Expressionless? :shock: Now you exaggerate totally, I meant considering a bit more expression - exaggeration in the playing, not in the statement :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:22 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
Something I have in my score that you obviously do not: On the C part (sotto voce.) I have one quarter note b-flat trill before both hands come in. Also in that section, I feel you rushed the rubato a bit in your left hand.

Interesting, I don't think I have that (but must check), I see it in the CD sheetmusic version though.
I'm not sure if it will sound better, must try it out. Thanks.

pianolady wrote:
7/5 - Yes, this one is weird too, But I think you played it just a tad too fast. I have a marking of dotted half note = 60. You were a bit faster. And if you slow it down, (just a little) your left hand may hit all the notes of the chords better and we can also hear and appreciated the melody line and rhythm more. One thing I don't get is the end. Does your score say to go back and repeat some of the first line?

Yes, I got carried away there, as in the my stupidly fast version of 7.4 :wink:
No, my score says "Da capo senza fine" which I had always a problem interpreting. But Rubinstein does this repeating and it seemed to make sense to me. Though I think he repeats all the chords and I leave out the last 2 which I think then sounds more logical. Anyway I like it better like this.

MindenBlues wrote:
Expressionless? :shock: Now you exaggerate totally, I meant considering a bit more expression - exaggeration in the playing, not in the statement :P

I was thinking sort of of what you said about the Op.6 set:

Quote:
Say what? I personally have no problems in blaming myself completely for lack of expression

and I seem to remember you used the word expressionless before (though I can't find that now) , but I know I should not take these things personal :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:01 pm 
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Listened to these recording without a score in my hand. Actually, I personally prefer to listen to it musically rather than correcting details like a grammar teacher ;).

All these recordings are very good and you seem to continuously raise your standard which is admirable and I really know what you mean about how the Edirol evens out the dynamics. From what I have learnt, it has a built in compressor and a limiter so it increases the volume of low volume tones, decreases the volume of the high volume and cuts under -40 db (to remove noise). While this is in most cases probably for the better, it is not always so for piano recordings.

I am not disturbed with what you name bright-eyed Mazurkas while many professional pianists take a more liberal standpoint to the term rubato. But compare with Michelangeli and you will find similar interpretations (while his are of course absolutely note and dynamically perfect). Personally, a slightly more dancing rhythm would be candy to my ears but I respect your consequent attitude.

So are you going to complete all his Mazurkas then? When you think you are done, I will send you a couple of sketches of the less known Mazukras and you will have recorded the most complete set ever of Chopin ;).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:53 am 
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robert wrote:
So are you going to complete all his Mazurkas then? When you think you are done, I will send you a couple of sketches of the less known Mazukras and you will have recorded the most complete set ever of Chopin ;).

Yes definitely, I'm already over half way now. Would be nice to do those sketches as well !

Thanks for the comments. While still not perfect, these are again a bit better than the previous.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:01 am 
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techneut wrote:
MindenBlues wrote:
Expressionless? :shock: Now you exaggerate totally, I meant considering a bit more expression - exaggeration in the playing, not in the statement :P

I was thinking sort of of what you said about the Op.6 set:

Quote:
Say what? I personally have no problems in blaming myself completely for lack of expression



:roll: Since I don't like that kind of picking sentences out of context, I need to clarify here a bit.

What I said above was in the thread about the Op.6 set. So far you are right. But you picked that sentence out of the context about whether the recording tool (and piano) hides or reduces the expression or not.
Furthermore I tried to put in words, that I personally don't have problems to blame myself for the deficiency I have in my expression on piano. That means, I am not satisfied with my expression possibilities, therefore I like to improve on that. That does not exclude that I too try to improve my recording equipment and the piano intonation, I only don't blame it for my own faults.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:23 am 
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Allright... pace.

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 Post subject: feelings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Ok, Chris, i have saved this files and listened at home,,,,,regardless with the score or not, I am more interetsted in musicality and feeling towards to the music I am listening to, and are not direct targeting at you personally.

Yes, I agreed with others, some notes were missing, musicality wise, I always felt that your marzurka is lacking of feeling, like I have mentioned 4 months ago with your other mazurka. I know your style is strict pulse and which is a bit like Mr. Bach...I had the same feeling when I first joined the piano society that YOU LIKED BACH by all means. But strangely, your Ladove mazurkas are much better with musical feeling........please expalin?

What I should said is play with sensitive touch like Peter Fournet ior Murrary Peria or somewhere around there..--feeling


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:04 pm 
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I don't believe my Liadov's are 'better' than my Chopin's ... It's just that nobody (including me) has an idea of what they should sound like. The Chopin Mazurkas, everybody here knows exactly how they like them and is used to hearing the greatest pianist's studio recordings on their perfectly regulated concert grands. Sorry to hear you don't find any feeling in them at all - I did not think it was that bad.

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