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 Post subject: Re: Chopin Nocturnes: Eb, op. 55 no. 2; F#m op. 48 no.2
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:48 am 
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Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
hanysz wrote:
It's reasonably common in opera, and works well in piano works that show operatic qualities (a lot of Liszt, some Chopin, occasionally in Mozart slow movements, but not Debussy or Rachmaninoff). In my opinion this sort of rubato is becoming rarer in piano playing because we tend to over-specialise: pianists don't listen to enough opera (and singers don't listen to enough instrumental music)! I haven't heard an orchestra alone doing this (at least, not deliberately), but I've heard it done by the the combination of orchestra plus voice.

This was the reason why Chopin advised all of his students to sing; he wanted his students to mimic the impassioned speech of opera when playing his music. I find that this type of rubato works well in many unexpected places in Chopin, though (for example, 25/12, where it's commonly thought to be inappropriate). It just has a totally different effect. I've also found that polyrhythm exercises are great for developing the ability, too, such as the TN etude in F minor, because they teach you to effectively separate the melody hand from the accompaniment hand (unless you take the less-musical route of constantly thinking about exactly where each note should fall).

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin Nocturnes: Eb, op. 55 no. 2; F#m op. 48 no.2
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:56 pm
Posts: 553
After a very tearful listening, particularly of the F# minor, I can only say "God bless you!" Your playing moved me beyond measure. What is your real name?


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin Nocturnes: Eb, op. 55 no. 2; F#m op. 48 no.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:57 am
Posts: 316
Location: New York City
Rich,

I just listened to both Nocturnes. I think your approach is sophisticated and very beautiful. The flow is excellent. I do not know these nocturnes well, but from the standpoint of someone who just wanted to listen to something presented in an interesting way, your communication of the lines was very successful. Your shading is gorgeous for the most part.

The E flat major nocturne seemed a bit richer and consistent in terms of tone throughout.

Congratulations on your performance.

Kaila Rochelle

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin Nocturnes: Eb, op. 55 no. 2; F#m op. 48 no.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
musical-md wrote:
Terez wrote:
I think people don't even consider it because everyone plays the rubato hands-together.
Maybe because most people (everybody?) think it sounds unmusical. IMO it is nothing more than MDD: Musical Dissociative Disorder. I think this has a certain mythical status. Consider that if it were a genuine musical virtue, it would not be associated with a single composer's piano works. Can anyone imagine Brahms, Liszt, Scriabin, Debbusy or Rachmaninoff played this way? Certainly I cannot. Has anyone every heard an orchestra doing this? Absolutely not! :shock:

Standing ready to Stand Corrected,
Eddy


Now I come to think of it, I remember when I was still learning the teacher (French school) did mention just this in relation to Chopin's Prelude in d. That the secret to a good performance of that one was to keep the left hand steady and in perfect time while playing the right hand with much fantasy and singing was mentioned to illustrate what playing with fantasy meant.

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"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


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