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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:32 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Eddy - Your comment may cause me to consider adding a descriptive word here and there. A "tempo rubato" or "tempo giusto" would probably help in places to "build character". Though I tend to use eighth-notes as my most common note value, they tend to mean different things in different contexts. We will see about the "character" issue, as some of these pieces do make rather drastic changes at times. I agree, however, that drastic change is not a common trait of my music. My structure tends to the "organic" side, as one might expect.

Though maybe not so much in the piece you mentioned, I find that the difficulty in Bartok is not his time changes but his tempo changes. This is especially true in his orchestra works. His Dance Suite, for instance, is full of time changes AND tempo changes, which makes it so difficult to perform. You have to watch the music AND the conductor very carefully. It is so much more difficult than, say, Stravinsky, who almost never changes tempo expressively. Must be a Gypsy thing.

Thanks again.

Glenn


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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:39 pm 
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glenn wrote:
Though maybe not so much in the piece you mentioned, I find that the difficulty in Bartok is not his time changes but his tempo changes. This is especially true in his orchestra works. His Dance Suite, for instance, is full of time changes AND tempo changes, which makes it so difficult to perform. You have to watch the music AND the conductor very carefully. It is so much more difficult than, say, Stravinsky, who almost never changes tempo expressively. Must be a Gypsy thing.

Except for maybe some juvenilia, I find little or nothing of the gypsy in Bartok. He was steeped in the real Hungarian native idiom, which has almost nothing to do with gypsy music (Liszt had these rather mixed up in his rhapsodies - but he was not Hungarian). Bartok's changing meters, and in particular his irregular metric patterns, where notes are left out or accented seemingly at will, can be a bitch indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Location: Illinois
I don't think anyone is implying that we should get rid of metered notation. Dance music is, and should be, very metric (though some people do dance a Polka as if it had no meter ;-). If one system helps a composer convey his ideas better over another, then that is what that person should use. It is just one more tool to use.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Location: Illinois
There is also nothing that would deny the use of descriptive text, even an occasional sectional barline here and there. The composer can be as specific or general as he/she choses to be.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:48 am 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
techneut wrote:
I find little or nothing of the gypsy in Bartok.

Sorry, easy mistake for a desert rat to make.
RSPIll wrote:
There is also nothing that would deny the use of descriptive text, even an occasional sectional barline here and there. The composer can be as specific or general as he/she choses to be.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
RSPIll wrote:
I don't think anyone is implying that we should get rid of metered notation. Dance music is, and should be, very metric (though some people do dance a Polka as if it had no meter ;-). If one system helps a composer convey his ideas better over another, then that is what that person should use. It is just one more tool to use.

Indeed, i was just wondering whether this would be dismissed out of hand, which does not seem to be the case. In my case, it is a matter of conception. A dance starts out a dance, even if improvised, and meter is essential. This music is piped in from who knows where. I am hoping this notation would make it more flexible, and maybe even more attractive.

Glenn


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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:24 am 
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Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
glenn wrote:
This music is piped in from who knows where
Glenn,
The more I listen to these pieces the more I'm fascinated by them. I just thought I would check for the "phi" moment in your works (actually it's the inverse Golden Ratio). This is strictly based on time as the works are produced in the mp3, as your music has no bars to count. Strictly based on elapsed time, the phi moment for Waiting for a Breeze comes in line 29 at start of second phrase. That for The Sun Brings Hope is in line 26, last phrase (f). As I search for significance of the first position (return of activity with 16th notes perhaps?), I struggle until I realize that what I see is the synchronization of phrases in both hands such that the music can take a quiet breath. Then I remember the title: Waiting for a breeze, and a smile comes across my face. In no.2, the phi moment is also subtle but represents the return of the first full forte in 2.5 pages! In performance, I would probably wish to time it such that the fortissimo of line 29 is what occured at that time - and maybe I'd make a bigger deal out of it than you have.

le philosophe inconnu,
Eddy

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"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Ha. Unknown indeed. I have used the Golden Mean in some of my earlier works, but I am afraid these present works were written by Goldmund and not Narcissus. I had a long and stimulating conversation once with a composer about the nature and value of improvisation. He claimed that improvisers just regurgitate what they know, even if it is unconscious. I tried to argue that you don't even BEGIN to improvise until you DON'T know what you are doing. It is not just forgetting what you know, it is allowing the complexity of reality to overcome ones desire for simplicity and control, so that your mind does not intrude. To do it well, you must also replace the "depth of reflection" with the "depth of experience", and you must TRUST it! When you compose, you almost always know what you are doing, at least when you are past the stage of beginner. But with improvisation, you become reintroduced to the realm of discovery. During the period of post-creation when I am editing and making decisions concerning which parts to use, beginning, ending, cuts, etc., or, in other words, when I am actually putting the pieces together, I am also making subjective decisions about simply whether it works or not - and why. It is amazing how a small change can make all the difference. I am honored that you would put these works to such scrutiny, and hope they provide some enjoyment. Thanks again, Eddy.

Glenn


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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Glenn, I had to go in search of some education to gain understanding of what you meant by the Goldmund vs Narcissus contrast. Next time speak to me on my level and just say Bones vs Spock :lol: (or Dionysus vs Apollo if you prefer)

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Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Please comment on my spatial notation
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:22 am 
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I always think of the Hesse because they are so distinct and because they both arrive at a similarly enlightened understanding. But I like the Bones and Spock!

Glenn


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