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 Post subject: Chopin, Bach, Burgmüller
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:53 pm 
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I guess you soon get tired of my Chopin Impromptu and this should be my last re-take. Hope you like this one better.

Chopin Impromptu no.1 in A-flat major, Op.29

I just had to fix the wrong notes in my Bach Invention in E minor so here is a new recording.

Bach BWV778 - 2-part invention in E minor

Some time ago (couple of weeks) we discussed easier pieces as Burgmüller's Op.101. I think he named it "Etüdes für Kinder". Not sure really as my brother lended the score a couple of decenniums back and never returned it. And I am not sure I remember it right as I picked this out of my head.

I had to play all the 25 etüdes for my piano teacher about 25 years ago. First once, and then in a much higher tempo to increase my speed. So as a joke, and so that Chris can get to hear how they sound, I give you the example of the famous second etüde named Arabesque. Don't worry, Chris. These sloppy recordings will never hit the site ;).

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin, Bach, Burgmüller
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:46 pm 
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robert wrote:
I had to play all the 25 etüdes for my piano teacher about 25 years ago. First once, and then in a much higher tempo to increase my speed. So as a joke, and so that Chris can get to hear how they sound, I give you the example of the famous second etüde named Arabesque. Don't worry, Chris. These sloppy recordings will never hit the site ;).

So you think ! I have already put them up :P

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:34 am 
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:lol:

I like the slow one.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:44 am 
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I like your Chopin Impromptu very much!

Especially the accents and the trills came out very well, also overall nothing to niggle. Personally I would prefer a not so dry A-part and perhaps a bit more lyrical playing in general, but I think everyone should establish, nurse and cultivate an own personal style regarding interpretation - and so do you. Rightly so!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:00 pm 
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robert, do you play on a digital piano? Something about these recordings sounds different to me, maybe it's something you do in the post-processing.

Just curious.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:09 pm 
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:lol: That fast version makes me laugh. After my fifth cup of coffee I play like that too.

Your Bach sounded perfect to me.

The Impromtu - I've mentioned it before, and I'll repeat that I like your style on this piece. The tempo, pedalling, phrasing is just as I like to hear it. But to be honest, I still think you're making a counting mistake on those same two measures. Nobody else has mentioned them, so now I'm wondering if I'm crazy and you are right afterall. I really liked your ending on this version. You paused more on all the rests and it came out great.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin, Bach, Burgmüller
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:11 pm 
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techneut wrote:
robert wrote:
I had to play all the 25 etüdes for my piano teacher about 25 years ago. First once, and then in a much higher tempo to increase my speed. So as a joke, and so that Chris can get to hear how they sound, I give you the example of the famous second etüde named Arabesque. Don't worry, Chris. These sloppy recordings will never hit the site ;).

So you think ! I have already put them up :P

:shock: :o :D :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:18 pm 
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toki wrote:
robert, do you play on a digital piano? Something about these recordings sounds different to me, maybe it's something you do in the post-processing.

Just curious.

Correct. A Yamaha CLP-170 to be exact...longing for something else though but neither my Schimmel or Nylund & Son is in proper condition. Second problem (which is actually the biggest) is that 90% of my practise time is when my family is sleeping. My plan is to rebuild the house to create a music room to which I can close the door. But before that, I must take care of a lot other stuff in the house first, including the toilets...this is really non-topic ;). But I want to be very clear about that I do not midi manipulate them etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:23 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
:lol: That fast version makes me laugh. After my fifth cup of coffee I play like that too.

Hehe! Normal speed is in b=144, this is about twice that (b=288). That means that the 16:ths must be executed pretty fast. The time between should be about 60 / 288 / 4 = 0.052. That is 19 keystrokes per second. Challange me! :twisted:
pianolady wrote:
Your Bach sounded perfect to me.

It is about note perfect (musically, is another issue). Some unsteady moments in the trill, I think I half slipped some place but otherwise I think I got it down right this time.
pianolady wrote:
The Impromtu - I've mentioned it before, and I'll repeat that I like your style on this piece. The tempo, pedalling, phrasing is just as I like to hear it. But to be honest, I still think you're making a counting mistake on those same two measures. Nobody else has mentioned them, so now I'm wondering if I'm crazy and you are right afterall. I really liked your ending on this version. You paused more on all the rests and it came out great.

Thank you!

I think I added the required space this time, which I did not really do before. Was a little fast earlier but now I am not really sure what you mean. Curious to understand better ;).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:30 pm 
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Quote:
I think I added the required space this time, which I did not really do before.


That's what I meant.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:48 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
Quote:
I think I added the required space this time, which I did not really do before.


That's what I meant.

Ah, sorry. When I read your post again it makes perfect sense. And I still did not count at the end ;).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:20 pm 
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robert wrote:
It is about note perfect (musically, is another issue). Some unsteady moments in the trill, I think I half slipped some place but otherwise I think I got it down right this time.


Slips there were maybe none, but I believe some reading mistakes (could also be score deviations, mine is Henle Urtext):

Bar 1 : 3rd beat: Sounds like you omit the second RH b
Bar 6 : The 4th RH note should be d, not f#
Bar 12: 2nd beat lh is d - e no e-d
Bar 16: 4th beat, d# should be d

The long trills are the Achilles heel indeed. The first one is a bit wonky and sounds as if you end it on the upper note. The 2nd is better, but are you sure it would not sound better using c# instead of c as upper note ?

The Impromptu is getting nicely into swing ! The outer movements are really pretty good, but I suspect you have neglected the slow middle section a bit, most slips and read errors are there.
When the reprise starts, it sounds a bit timid compared to the beginning, not really "a tempo". But that could be a choice you made. The smorzando on the last page sounde more like a stretto to me.
Apart from that, a good recording and technically good playing.

The Burgmuller, hehehe... I really never heard that piece, and can't see why it would be popular. Amazing you play this from memory after so many years ! A bit like my sister who remembers every tune she's ever played in the distant past even if she doesn't know what it is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:27 pm 
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techneut wrote:
robert wrote:
It is about note perfect (musically, is another issue). Some unsteady moments in the trill, I think I half slipped some place but otherwise I think I got it down right this time.


Slips there were maybe none, but I believe some reading mistakes (could also be score deviations, mine is Henle Urtext):

Bar 1 : 3rd beat: Sounds like you omit the second RH b
Bar 6 : The 4th RH note should be d, not f#
Bar 12: 2nd beat lh is d - e no e-d
Bar 16: 4th beat, d# should be d

Bar 1: Put headphones on, turn up the volume and you will hear it. Too low, yes but it is there ;).
Bar 6: Correct...&¤#(/
Bar 12: My score (see picture) says lh e-d but I check with an urtext which also says d-e.
Bar 16: Again see picture of my score. Says D# but again, the urtext says something else. I blame Czerny (I use his scores).

Also, check the manuscript which does not make sense really to any score I have seen. Can someone explain?

techneut wrote:
The long trills are the Achilles heel indeed. The first one is a bit wonky and sounds as if you end it on the upper note. The 2nd is better, but are you sure it would not sound better using c# instead of c as upper note ?

Tried that but I did not like it. Perhaps cause I'm not used to it. Will try again.
techneut wrote:
The Impromptu is getting nicely into swing ! The outer movements are really pretty good, but I suspect you have neglected the slow middle section a bit, most slips and read errors are there.
When the reprise starts, it sounds a bit timid compared to the beginning, not really "a tempo". But that could be a choice you made. The smorzando on the last page sounde more like a stretto to me.
Apart from that, a good recording and technically good playing.

It is much true that I have a bit neglected the middle part but comparing to how much I normally spend on a piece, I feel I have really put in some effort here and had some great help from my teacher. I played it for him this evening and he did not really point out any reading errors. I should use this as a warm-up exercise to correct problem in my technique so later, I might perhaps record it again.
techneut wrote:
The Burgmuller, hehehe... I really never heard that piece, and can't see why it would be popular. Amazing you play this from memory after so many years ! A bit like my sister who remembers every tune she's ever played in the distant past even if she doesn't know what it is.

I seem to easy remember some pieces while have really problems with for instance Bach. Or rather, have memorise problems when it comes to counterpoint. This one is really easy, in A-minor and follows the rule of a melodic minor scale. My teacher as a child used it at me as an exercise to establish equal speed in both hands so I have probably played it 1000 times or so ;).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:57 am 
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Ok, in the original score from Bach bar 12 is the last but one bar, I think.
Bach changed the clef for the LH after the first quadrupel. What one can see is that for the next both notes the first note is lower, the next higher. So d-e seems correct instead the other way round, Czerny was wrong I think.

Hopefully there are much more different scores so that if I play another Bach item anytime, I surely will find a score or some different to merge, if necessary, what fits the notes I actually play :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:18 am 
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robert wrote:
[2nd trill with c# s upper note]
Tried that but I did not like it. Perhaps cause I'm not used to it. Will try again.

It's going to clash either way, because the RH is playing a C# as well as a C natural. Just seems to me the b-c# sounds more natural, but that could be personal.

robert wrote:
[impromptu]
I played it for him this evening and he did not really point out any reading errors.

Perhaps you did not make any... or perhaps he was focused on some other goal. Mine never lets one pass, unless it's a simple technical slip. I can point out what I heard if you are interested.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:00 am 
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MindenBlues wrote:
Bach changed the clef for the LH after the first quadrupel.

Ah yes, of course.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:09 am 
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techneut wrote:
Perhaps you did not make any... or perhaps he was focused on some other goal. Mine never lets one pass, unless it's a simple technical slip. I can point out what I heard if you are interested.
Now I remember that I kind of improvised the descending 2-finger chords of RH at this particular recording. I can use the help but not at this point as I do not plan to re-record until later on. But thanks for your help and the interesting discussing. I really appreciate it as I believe many people on this forum do.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:22 pm 
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I didn't read everything but I have some critic about the burgmuller arabesque

you start to fast with the rest you play, you make some foulds in the rythem in the left hand

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:15 pm 
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rachmaninoff wrote:
I didn't read everything but I have some critic about the burgmuller arabesque

you start to fast with the rest you play, you make some foulds in the rythem in the left hand

Yes but...the Burgmuller was kind of joke.

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