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 Post subject: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Hi everybody! I want to know how to master many difficult songs more quickly. But I don't know any quick ways other than practice everyday and do warming up before practising. Do you know what is the best solution for my problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Become Tammy Wu.

Seriously, this little girl (now 8) is on youtube, playing ridiculous things. She could be legendary. Then you read that she just looked at piano for the first time when she was 6. I think the only way to become a "master" *quickly* is to be born one. Otherwise, you gotta put in your 10,000 hours like everybody else.

Best of luck,

Jim Abraham


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:11 am 
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Could well be Tammy Wu has put in her 10,000 hours already.... Or wait, there's probably not that many working hours in two years. Chinese piano whizkids are pushed to the extreme, I think. But yes this is amazing, and quite frustrating for us poor plodders who spend a lifetime trying to play like this. I am sure she will be snatched up by a big label very soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:39 pm 
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365 days * 3 hours/day = ~1000 hours per year. 9 hours per day is only 3000 hours a year. So about 4 years, 9 am to 5 pm *every day* to hit 10,000 hours. And I don't think the brain can retain that much that fast. You need sleep to allow the brain to do all the wiring.

So basically this little girl was just born this way. I don't feel so bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:04 pm 
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jcabraham wrote:
So basically this little girl was just born this way.

Absolutely. But apart from that, she's undoubtedly put in a LOT of hours, if not exactly 10,000. To such talent, everything else is often sacrificed.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:15 pm 
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totentanz wrote:
Hi everybody! I want to know how to master many difficult songs more quickly.

To master difficult songs, one should probably sing a lot. To master them more quickly, one should probably sing quicker.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:12 am 
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I've stopped watching child prodigies on YouTube playing Liszt's "Concert Etudes", etc. It makes me want to sell my piano and take up the bass drum or maybe the triangle.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:41 am 
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Rachfan wrote:
I've stopped watching child prodigies on YouTube playing Liszt's "Concert Etudes", etc. It makes me want to sell my piano and take up the bass drum or maybe the triangle.

David


Ah, but the prodigies can't produce that seasoned Rachfan sound. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 8:25 am 
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goldentone wrote:
Ah, but the prodigies can't produce that seasoned Rachfan sound. :)

So true ! I'll take a proficient, committed, and seasoned amateur over one of these Liszt-spewing whizkids any time.

BTW - Welcome to PS, goldentone.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:37 am 
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techneut wrote:
BTW - Welcome to PS, goldentone.


Thanks, Chris. Good to be here.


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:42 am 
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Thanks for that reassurance, guys! I resolve not to sell my piano after all! :)

David

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:23 pm 
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totentanz, I listen to the music I am playing allot. If I am learning several hard peices, I put them all on my ipod and listen to them as much as possible in all situations. This gives me a familiarity with the music so I know instantly if I'm making mistakes when learning them, and I also know whats coming next.

Of course, the problem with that is that you might start to follow the style of the recording unconcously. Other than that, I dont think there is any easy way to learn complex peices. Sorry :roll:

Bass


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:52 pm 
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bass_clef wrote:
totentanz, I listen to the music I am playing allot. If I am learning several hard peices, I put them all on my ipod and listen to them as much as possible in all situations. This gives me a familiarity with the music so I know instantly if I'm making mistakes when learning them, and I also know whats coming next.

Of course, the problem with that is that you might start to follow the style of the recording unconcously. Other than that, I dont think there is any easy way to learn complex peices. Sorry :roll:

Bass


Nah, it's ok pal. We really need to practice really hard to master things hahaha.... of course it may took some time. but, that's what is needed, Right?


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Haha! Yes most things in life that are worthwhile take time an patience.

I read in a book once that it might be a good idea to work on a group of music pieces that have similar problems and challenges to overcome. That way, if you solve a technical problem for one, you tend to solve it for the group. I think there is a certain amount of truth to that. I think its especially true when working on reading music at the piano instead of memorizing (but it applies in both cases I think.) That being said, it takes a long time for most people to master anything.


totentanz wrote:
bass_clef wrote:
totentanz, I listen to the music I am playing allot. If I am learning several hard peices, I put them all on my ipod and listen to them as much as possible in all situations. This gives me a familiarity with the music so I know instantly if I'm making mistakes when learning them, and I also know whats coming next.

Of course, the problem with that is that you might start to follow the style of the recording unconcously. Other than that, I dont think there is any easy way to learn complex peices. Sorry :roll:

Bass


Nah, it's ok pal. We really need to practice really hard to master things hahaha.... of course it may took some time. but, that's what is needed, Right?


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:29 am 
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I wouldn't worry about these whizkid prodigys. They have a gift and started at a young age. A lot of virtuoso's may be able to play fast and play lots of notes, but most are terrible at playing well MUSICALLY. Look at Lang Lang for example. The kid is good and has some technical skills but he is really not that great musically, he is a showoff.


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:28 am 
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Well, he is suited to play highly technical songs only, one without the needs of interpretation.


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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Hi. There is no simple answer to this and your question is quite general. You haven't said what level you play at now or what you are referring to as 'hard songs', nor for that matter what you consider to be fast. There are many many levels of piano and musical mastery and each time you find your self getting better you get to see a little further over the horizon of what's possible, a new level of expertise to work for.


However, having said that there both efficient and inefficient ways to practice and learn material. If you are trying to play music that you more or less already have the technique for, there are some great ways to learn it faster than is typically done (well again this is quite subjective), however if the material requires advanced techniques that you haven't yet acquired, well things are going to take more time.

There is a book (free) called 'The fundamentals of piano practice" by Chuan C. Chang http://www.pianofundamentals.com/book You can download a pdf version as well. It's not the do all and end all of piano playing and there are some controversial ideas in there but it does have a few chapters on learning material, memorizing methods and allot on making your practice more efficient. Again I don't know how advanced you are but I would say although allot of the techniques in this book can be fantastic, they are generally more advanced ideas and I don't think they should be an excuse not to practice the basic aspects of piano playing to build a groundwork of finger strength and dexterity. I still found the book really useful though. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Bit of a topic bump here, Sharma :D
Also, Chang's book has been lavishly discussed in these quarters.
Thanks for posting though.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Two words: Systematic and Exhaustive.
That's how.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:39 pm 
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musical-md wrote:
Two words: Systematic and Exhaustive.
That's how.

The question was about quick ways ...
I suppose he can try quickly and systematically exhausting himself. Whether it helps, dunno :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:43 am 
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SwanY, I believe you are only here to plug this free piano lesson stuff. Even posting quotes from that site.
We do not like that kind of 'participating' here. Also I'm not sure you know or understand what this site is about.
We are serious classical musicians here who mostly have no need or desire to learn chord progressions and pop stuff.
Please take your business elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:52 am 
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Hi DebussyChopin,

I believe you have something there. When I think back long ago when I was a kid, there were whizkids who seemingly could play anything, and if prestissimo so much the better for them. But their playing was mechanical, lifeless, devoid of any feelings. I remember that my teacher used to encourage more musicality from them, but to no avail. And if they had to learn and play lyrical music, it was as if they had been dropped onto a forbidden planet. Their one-sided capability couldn't recognize, never mind cope with the need for expressiveness. And insofar as prodigies are concerned, quite often they're a flash in the pan--they come on the scene, create a huge stir, but then drop out of sight never to be heard again. Me? Well, I wish I could play prestissimo, but I get a phobia much beyond moderato. :lol: But that's OK because when I play lyrical music, I believe I can always find the beauty dwelling there. I'll gladly take that any day!

David

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:13 am 
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Rachfan wrote:
Hi DebussyChopin,

I believe you have something there. When I think back long ago when I was a kid, there were whizkids who seemingly could play anything, and if prestissimo so much the better for them. But their playing was mechanical, lifeless, devoid of any feelings. I remember that my teacher used to encourage more musicality from them, but to no avail. And if they had to learn and play lyrical music, it was as if they had been dropped onto a forbidden planet. Their one-sided capability couldn't recognize, never mind cope with the need for expressiveness. And insofar as prodigies are concerned, quite often they're a flash in the pan--they come on the scene, create a huge stir, but then drop out of sight never to be heard again. Me? Well, I wish I could play prestissimo, but I get a phobia much beyond moderato. :lol: But that's OK because when I play lyrical music, I believe I can always find the beauty dwelling there. I'll gladly take that any day!

David

Was this posted in the wrong forum ?

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:14 am 
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Hi Chris,

Nope. Debussy Chopin's remarks to which I responded are over on page 1.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:11 am 
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Rachfan wrote:
Nope. Debussy Chopin's remarks to which I responded are over on page 1.

Ah right. That was a post from august last year though.... and this user has not been back since then.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:12 pm 
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I guess I should have checked DebussyChopin's activity. On some sites, the "pseudonym" is in hypertext, and you can just click on it to see their profile and date of last posting. Here if you go to Members, it just gives the joining date. So where do you find that "last post date" info at Piano Society?

David

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Quote:
Rachfan wrote

Well, I wish I could play prestissimo, but I get a phobia much beyond moderato.


You go as fast as that, David? I am afraid to play any faster than adagio!

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:30 pm 
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Rachfan wrote:
I guess I should have checked DebussyChopin's activity. On some sites, the "pseudonym" is in hypertext, and you can just click on it to see their profile and date of last posting. Here if you go to Members, it just gives the joining date. So where do you find that "last post date" info at Piano Society?

Click the small 'Profile' button under the post area to see those details. This person is a 'one-day poster' and I should remove him/her.
In any case, if you feel the need to reply to such an old post it would make sense to check that the poster is still here.

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:06 am 
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Hi Chris,

Thanks for that. We learn something new every day. (Or if we don't, then it's a boring day.) I just assumed that was also the Member screen. Good to know it's more detailed.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:21 am 
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Hi Richard,

:lol: Well, I'm really most comfortable in andante, but yes, to move above that comfort zone I must "psyche myself up" to reach that higher tempo. When I was young I could play Chopin's "Revolutionary" Etude and similar, but as time went on, it seemed more difficult and worrisome somehow. At fast tempos I fear uneven or even inaccurate playing. I do make it a point though to challenge myself once a year. For purposes of 2010 it was Catoire's "Etude-fantastique" marked allegro, which went over very well thankfully. So did that raise my confidence level about playing fast music? Nope!!! So how do I invoke and execute it? I heed Josef Hofmann's simple dictum: "Will it!"

David

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 Post subject: Re: Any quick ways to master many difficult songs?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Ah, the Chopin Etude... I could play that one too, but with my present piano there is not enough space for my fingers. I do not know, but the keys seem shorter than normal and when I have to turn my hand... Fingers on the fallboard or against the hindge of the lid! I Could try, but I might break my fingers in the process.

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