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 Post subject: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:30 pm 
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I haven't done this for a while; so let's see if this submission works. Once I'm certain it's up and running I'll add interpretive details, etc...

Scarlatti - Sonata in F minor, K. 69


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:37 pm 
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OK... I see it's up. Now how do I get it to simply "play" as oppose to being "saved". That is, the immediate play option doesn't show up for me. I don't know about others.

JG

A few comments (while I try to figure out how to get this file to play the way I want it to.)

I was working on the C Major P&F combo from WTC 2, but became a little overwhelmed with interpretive lacunae (as I perceived them) in my reading of the Prelude. Ergo: time for a break..... I came across this particular Sonata courtesy of the great Christian Zacharias recording of this piece (which I cannot possibly manage to equal). It seems very beautiful to me, and not at first blush terribly difficult to get under the fingers.

Listeners who know this piece will recognize that I doubled up a few pedal points (well, I call them that), and that I shamelessly omitted some ornaments. Zacharias ends the second half of the Sonata in F Major; but I could not bring myself to do this, because it simply isn't in my version of the piece. My photocopy (with no reference to the edition), gives F Minor; so there you go.

The gold standard for Scarlatti, played at the piano, is I think Maria Tipo. But I don't have her account of this piece, if indeed she's ever recorded it!

Cheers,

JG


Last edited by johnlewisgrant on Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:57 am 
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This is up, John. Sounded nicely-played. Great sound-quality too!

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:07 am 
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That's weird.... when I click on the link for the Sonata I get "Chopin first editions..." And I got absolutely nothing against Chopin first editions, or any editions..... but.... hmmmm..

JG


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 am 
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I'm sorry. I fixed it.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:27 am 
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Thanks muchly!

JG


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:51 am 
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Well John Lewis Grant, my musical horizon has just been expanded thanks to you! I would never have thought the music I was listenng to was D. Scarlatti. That work is sublimely beautiful, and I think you played it beautifully. I do not have the work in my library (only have about 100 of his sonatas) but would love to. Which collection do you have it in?
Regards, Eddy

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"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:45 pm 
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It is a beautiful sonata, and you do play it beautifully, John. I enjoyed that very much. Scarlatti is rarely so ... romantic, you might almost say, but when he is, he pulls it off as artfully as he does any other style that he uses. Eddy, I have the EMB Urtext "200 sonatas" collection, which features this sonata in volume 1. I haven't got the score with me, but I'm fairly sure there's nothing in it to indicate you should go into the major for the ending.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:15 pm 
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The "Tierce de Picardi" is a device which may be either dictated by the composer (e.g. Chopin Etude Op.10, No. 6 in Eb minor), or improvized by a performer if it serves the context and style, but that does take serious conviction. :o (if surprise is NOT in order, then don't end on the major)

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"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:46 pm 
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It's one of these Scarlatti's that reminds us (as if we needed reminding) he was not all about keyboard pyrotechnics, but really a deep and sensitive composer. I almost love the slow sonatas more than the fast ones, they're usually achingly beautiful.

A deeply considered and unsually personal interpretation, this one. A bit more romantic freedom (in terms of rubato and dynamics) than I would have done, but it's a valid choice. My only (very little) nag is that maybe you are using a bit much pedal in places. Or maybe it's the reverb, but I seem to hear some blurring here and there. Anyway, great playing and great sound.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:52 am 
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I liked the rhythmic freedom and gentle tone quality. I think you could make the 3/4 metre clearer at the start--I wouldn't have guessed the time signature without looking at a score! There's a false accent on the A flat in bar 3. You need to be careful at phrase endings that your diminuendo doesn't lead to a loss of clarity; for instance, in bar 8 it's as if you're mumbling. Overall a most enjoyable performance, thanks.

For what it's worth, John Sankey has typeset the complete Scarlatti sonatas--you can download them for free from http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Scarlatti,_Domenico. It's not the most authoritative edition (he doesn't say what his sources are, as far as I can tell), but it's very convenient. Sankey seems to think it ends in the major too. There's a first edition in a local library here; I'll see if I can remember to check it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:34 am 
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Hi John,

I was very impressed with this beautiful sonata and your marvelous rendition. We customarily think of the transition from the Viennese Classical period to the Romantic era as being effected by Beethoven, Schubert and Weber. But this Scarlatti piece (and some by Bach are also quite sublime) indicates that the capability for very expressive lyricism existed long before those two composers! Thanks for sharing your fine recording!

David

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:39 pm 
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This is a lovely performance, with poetry, a limpid piano tone, and many nice touches. It's been a while since I listened to any Scarlatti, so thank you for reminding me what I've been missing!


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:33 pm 
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I have nothing to add to the comments above, except to say that this is one of those Scarlatti sonatas that would have made me change my opinion of his music, had I not know about it beforehand.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:26 pm 
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Surprisingly, there are a number of recordings of the K 69 up at Youtube, including one by the prolific Jando. I think the Zacharias is better, but it's not on the Tube. The waterfall motif, let us call it, is everywhere in this piece. Jando seems to miss it, but Zacharias completely grasps it. In hindsight (20/20 naturally) one might say I start out too tentatively. Room for improvement here, because of course maintaining the rhythmic flow of this particular Adagio is of paramount importance. Ornaments? Where are they? One doesn't want to go for cheap or superficial effects in Scarlatti; especially in this Sonata, which is a kind of complex unveiling of something ominous and foreboding (death?) at the end. But the ornamentation probably assists here; so I missed an opportunity. My fear was that I might end up drawing attention away from the substantial, meaty stuff, which is everywhere in this piece.

I think I would like to have a go at the other famous (more famous, I suppose) F minor, L 466. Not quite as interesting as the earlier L 382, but still very beautiful and, again, simple but very, very elusive.

I'm off to hear Tafelmusik doing the B minor Mass--my favourite big choral work of all time .... until I heard the St. Matt's Passion, that is.

JG


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:55 am 
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Quote:
I'm off to hear Tafelmusik doing the B minor Mass--my favourite big choral work of all time

I envy you!

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"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:09 pm 
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jim_24601 wrote:
I have the EMB Urtext "200 sonatas" collection, which features this sonata in volume 1. I haven't got the score with me, but I'm fairly sure there's nothing in it to indicate you should go into the major for the ending.

I do apologise. I was going from my memory of playing it through a few times but not actually learning it. Now I have got round to checking the score, I find that there is indeed an A natural marked in the last bar in my copy. :oops: If I'm reading the textual notes right (for some reason they are only in German, although the introduction is translated into English and Hungarian) it cites Kirkpatrick's facsimile edition of the manuscripts as principal source.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:32 pm 
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I have Henle's edition of Bach's Inventions and Sinfonias (2- and 3- part Inventions.) Sinfonia No. 9 finishes in a major chord in that edition. How it spoils the effect of all that has come before. It is the same here.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:29 pm 
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johnlewisgrant wrote:
I'm off to hear Tafelmusik doing the B minor Mass--my favourite big choral work of all time .... until I heard the St. Matt's Passion, that is.

Absolutely the two greatest works of all times (I leave out 'big choral' on purpose). With the St.John Passion hard on their heels. I would hate to have yo choose between them.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:30 pm 
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techneut wrote:
johnlewisgrant wrote:
I'm off to hear Tafelmusik doing the B minor Mass--my favourite big choral work of all time .... until I heard the St. Matt's Passion, that is.

Absolutely the two greatest works of all times (I leave out 'big choral' on purpose). With the St.John Passion hard on their heels. I would hate to have yo choose between them.

These are the absolute pillars of all choral literature ... with one possible exception: What about the St. Luke Passion of Penderecki? I think i make a tripod of the 3! Wait, what about the War Requiem by B. Britten? Ok, now I'm up to a four-leged stool! Other possibilities include Handel's Messiah (2+hours and composed in 28 days!) and the Symphony of Psalms by Stravinsky! my $2 worth. :)

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"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:16 pm 
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Verdi's Requiem is not half bad either... and Mozart's... and Dvorak's Stabat Mater, Janacek's Glagolitic Mass.....
Seems like we've gone OT again. At least it was the OP started it :P

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Ok, I propose that if we say Mass, then it is Bach alone!
If we say Passion, then it is Bach and Pendercki.
If we say Requiem, then it must be Mozart, Brahms (A German R.), Verdi, Britten.
If we say choral symphonies, then Beethoven and Stravinsky.
If we say Oratorio, then Handel and Mendelssohn
Let's just not say Stabat Mater
There. It's done. :P
Wait a minute, I thought this was the Piano Society?


Edit: added Oratorio and corrected spelling of Mendelssoh[n]

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Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:34 pm 
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Thats really nice John-and I like the ambience-slight reverb-(I know there was 1 time i bugged you about it!!!-but I dont hear it here)--i am using desktop speakers--maybe speakers make difference in the perception--(altho i use headphones 2)ive been bugged about my pedalling and i need to fix my prob-and maybe my ears 2-- are you still recording digitally?I need some tips!Ive been enjoying your WTC recordings a lot and the cats have 2-many thanks
Sandy DiLeo


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Very beautifully played!


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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Hi John,
I really feel sorry to have discovered that wonderful gem here so lately, somehow I must have overseen it.

That´s a wonderful, deep and soulful interpretation of that well-known sonata. You play it with so much sublety and highest artistry! I think, you elaborate the wistful and melancholique mood of that piece in all details and every motif and note is feeled deeply and there are so much nuances in you interpretation!

So, that´s simply brilliant! Continue so!

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:16 am 
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This is a beautiful performance of this piece...I've not heard this one, but I really enjoyed your recording.
I just started learning some Scarlatti (I've never played him before), and so I listened to about 10 discs of Scarlatti on Naxos to see what I liked and familiarize myself with his music, and I found that these slower ones in the minor keys are the most depressingly beautiful music ever written for the keyboard, especially on the piano. I think I'll look into this piece.

thanks for you sharing---this was beautiful.
Rich

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 Post subject: Re: Scarlatti F Minor Sonata, L 382, K 69
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:46 am 
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Hi John,

Listened to your Scarlatti.
Nice interpretation. Thank you for posting.
The recording quality is very good as well.
Where did you record and what did you use for recording?

Thanks for posting, waiting for new material from you.

GL
Jaak


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