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 Post subject: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Hi friends,
I´m not lost, I just was very busy the last week. :D But I also had some problems with my internet-connection, because my ethernet card broke down. So, now I´m using a W-LAN-stick, which is not so stabil, I always have interuptions in the internet connection with that stupid device. :evil:
I was very up to make a recording of that piece, because I was inspired by Monicas version. (I hope you don´t mind that, Monica. I just love to play the Impromptus, it´s not because I want to show you how to play it.)
I only had three hours or so to practise on it, because I had a lot of preparations for my excursion to Leipzig I will do this week from wednesday to saturday with my "Musikleistungskurs" at high school (sorry, I don´t know to translate that word into English). So, I´m glad to have a version now I´m quite satisfied with. I´m sorry to have discovered a little mistake in bar 117 on the second beat (b-major instead of b-minor). But from my view that doesn´t matter too much, because I feel quite well with my musical interpretation (which always can be improved or changed as we know).

Comments are very appreciated.


Schubert - Impromptu in E-flat Major, Op. 90, No. 2

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Last edited by musicusblau on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Ok, Andreas, this is up. Sounded very nice. You certainly play it much faster than I do, but I'm working on that. Maybe sometimes your speed is causing some of the runs to not be clear, though. Still, you're version is so much better than mine - I'm taking mine off the site right after I'm done typing this. Also, please next time to remember to submit under 190 kbps.

Chris - if you see this, please take my schubert-90-2-alianello off the server. Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
Ok, Andreas, this is up. Sounded very nice.


Thank you very much, Monica. :D

Quote:
Maybe sometimes your speed is causing some of the runs to not be clear, though.


Well, that´s a point you always can discuss concerning that piece. I don´t want the runs to sound like "finger etudes" respective "scales of e-flat-major", that´s why I take some pedal here and there. It´s more the pedal which causes a bit "unclearness" here and there, but that´s my fully intention in that romantic piece and I think it´s adequate.
If you listen to Andras Schiffs version f.ex. you will notice, that his runs sometimes are clearer than mine, but if you listen to an early version by Horrowitz you will find, that it is similar to mine concerning the "effect of flush" in the runs. (Not, that I want to compare me with Horrowitz here, of course. :lol: )


Quote:
Also, please next time to remember to submit under 190 kbps.


Oops, I thought it was, sorry Monica. :oops: I think, I got up in the scale one step by accident while converting the wave-file to mp3.

Quote:
Chris - if you see this, please take my schubert-90-2-alianello off the server. Thank you.


Of course, you have to decide that, Monica, but I think, this is a bit extreme from my view. Your version also has very nice musical moments and it is note-perfect, isn´t it? In every case it was not my intention to make you to retire your version! :shock:

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Last edited by musicusblau on Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:56 am 
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pianolady wrote:
Chris - if you see this, please take my schubert-90-2-alianello off the server. Thank you.

Isn't that a bit impulsive ? It wasn't that bad even in the first version.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:59 am 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
Isn't that a bit impulsive ? It wasn't that bad even in the first version.


I second this at hundred percent!

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:55 am 
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musicusblau wrote:
I only had three hours or so to practise on it, because I had a lot of preparations for my excursion to Leipzig I will do this week from wednesday to saturday with my "Musikleistungskurs" at high school (sorry, I don´t know to translate that word into English). So, I´m glad to have a version now I´m quite satisfied with. I´m sorry to have discovered a little mistake in bar 117 on the second beat (b-major instead of b-minor). But from my view that doesn´t matter too much, because I feel quite well with my musical interpretation (which always can be improved or changed as we know).

Now, this amuses me. All these times you have (rightly) chided me for sacrificing accuracy to speed, and now you are doing that exact same thing. Time to get my own back :lol:

This is a very personal version, with many nice things. Maybe a little impulsive in places but ok, that is your temperament. However I find quite some weak and even wrong notes in the runs, and IIRC a couple elsewhere too. That's just not like you. I have no problem with the fast tempo as such, I think it could work, but the runs should remain smooth and silvery. Seems like 3 hours preparation, even for a piece you know backwards (which I can hear you do) is just not enough.

I think I'll go record this one too now :P

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:05 pm 
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I do not like any of this. Please take mine off.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:33 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
I do not like any of this. Please take mine off.

Maybe we should have 'Like' and 'Do no like' buttons like on YouTube ?

Ok, I'll take if off tonight, as well as your duplicate bach-marcello file.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
All these times you have (rightly) chided me for sacrificing accuracy to speed, and now you are doing that exact same thing. Time to get my own back :lol:


Now I see, you still don´t know me completely. I wouldn´t make a general rule of "sacrificing accuracy to speed", it just depends on the kind of piece from my view. And, you know, sometimes it can be very good to come back to yourself! :lol:


Quote:
This is a very personal version, with many nice things. Maybe a little impulsive in places but ok, that is your temperament.


Thanks, Chris, I can be very fiery, that´s cool, isn´t it?! 8)

Quote:
However I find quite some weak and even wrong notes in the runs, and IIRC a couple elsewhere too.


I can´t detect any wrong notes (besides bar 117, 2nd beat, which I have mentioned above)! So, you would have to tell me exactly where they are! :P


Quote:
Seems like 3 hours preparation, even for a piece you know backwards (which I can hear you do) is just not enough.


O.k., o.k., may be, may be... I have to admit, when I played the piece during a piano competition being 14 years old, I played the runs much more "civilized" (and slower), but today I think, for me that´s not, what that piece wants to express. So, from a musical view (concerning my interpretation) I´m really quite satisfied with that version. :D May be I want to play out the upper voice a bit more in the pp-part next time. I think, that and the bars 37, 38 (also in the reprise), which could be played a bit more accurate, are the only "weak places" in my version above I can discover until know.

Quote:
I think I'll go record this one too now :P


I´m still licking my chops to give you a nice critique, Chris! :lol: Seriously, that´s a nice idea!

Chris also wrote to Monica:
Quote:
Maybe we should have 'Like' and 'Do no like' buttons like on YouTube ?


Well, that could "bring atmosphere into the barrack" as we say in German ("Stimmung in die Bude bringen"), but wouldn´t attest to differentiated respective elaborated reflections on the pieces, which should be part of a good piano-forum, isn´t it?

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Last edited by musicusblau on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:04 pm 
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Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
I do not like any of this.


So, you don´t like my version, Monica?! :cry: ( :lol:)

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:51 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
I can´t detect any wrong notes (besides bar 117, 2nd beat, which I have mentioned above)! So, you would have to tell me exactly where they are! :P

I can't believe you don't hear them. Maybe this is a case of hearing what you want to hear. I'm not saying this is a bad version, it's musically convincing (though too wild for by urbane taste) but there are definitely a couple dozen notes that are questionable. Not read mistakes but little slips and omissions. It's just not up to your usual impeccable standards.

musicusblau wrote:
I´m still licking my chops to give you a nice critique, Chris! :lol: Seriously, that´s a nice idea!

I was only joking. I had no Schubert plans for the near future though I've thought about both sets of impromptus which I know very well.

BTW - it's already, not still. :)

musicusblau wrote:
Well, that could "bring atmosphere into the barrack" as we say in German ("Stimmung in die Bude bringen"), but wouldn´t attest to differentiated respective elaborated reflections on the pieces, which should be part of a good piano-forum, isn´t it?

I was only joking here, too :)

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
Not read mistakes but little slips and omissions. It's just not up to your usual impeccable standards.


Ah, o.k., here we have our missunderstanding. If I read "wrong notes" I´m thinking of real wrong tones (in the sense of read errors or something like that). Is that my poor English or did you use the wrong vocable here? "Little slips"? Yes, at two or three places, I think. "Omissions"? Not really, I just took a good foot of pedal at some places during the runs (that means steps of seconds), which was my fully intention as I explained above. Indeed, I´m playing here against my usual "impeccable" respective "civilized" standards with fully intention. But, I see, you don´t like like that. Well, I could elaborate a version with less pedal and more clearness (corresponding more to my "usual standard", if you like, but I´m still reflecting, if I really want that in that case...


Quote:
I had no Schubert plans for the near future though I've thought about both sets of impromptus which I know very well.


I´m really thinking about to do the complete set of the impromptus step by step (while continuing WTCII, of course).

Quote:
BTW - it's already, not still. :)


I´m so glad to hear that. I still, oh sorry, already have missed that correction. :D

Quote:
I was only joking here, too :)


But me, I wasn´t really joking with my remark concerning that. At least there was a bit seriousness in it. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:50 pm 
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Ok, I rest my case.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:19 pm 
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Quote:
Ok, I rest my case.


I think, I have found the right translation now for that colloquial sentence (after a longer research). It means something like "all is said", isn´t it? O.k., if you think so.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Hi Andreas,

I think also that is either too fast (likely) or not enough articulated (surely at some passages). I have no doubt that you can play this piece in a more musical way. However I would be happy of being able to play it as good as you did because it is far too difficult for my fingers.
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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:36 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
I think, I have found the right translation now for that colloquial sentence (after a longer research). It means something like "all is said", isn´t it? O.k., if you think so.

It does not mean "all is said", just that I stop arguing about it...

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:38 pm 
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O.k., my friends, I have thought about all what was said and written here until now and I will do a re-recording one nice day (first, I will go to Leipzig), which is with less pedal in the runs and clearer (may be also slower) and more up to my "usual impeccable standards" as Chris has written not without being right up to a certain level, since you all don´t seem to like my fiery "effects of flush" in the runs, which I wanted to produce.
So, wish me, that I will not go lost in Leipzig :lol: and see you later... :D

And: Thanks for your comment, Didier. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
It does not mean "all is said", just that I stop arguing about it...


No problem and all is right, Chris. It´s just my poor English, which makes me difficulties to translate such "sayings". (I really had too look in different dictionaries, until I found a translation, which made a sense to me, and then it even was wrong.)

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:50 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
O.k., my friends, I have thought about all what was said and written here until now and I will do a re-recording one nice day (first, I will go to Leipzig), which is with less pedal in the runs and clearer (may be also slower) and more up to my "usual impeccable standards" as Chris has written not without being right up to a certain level,

Haha I like that. You're not actually agreeing with me are you, if only to a certain level ? :lol:
Or are you simply resting your case ?

Don't get lost in the Thomaskirche !

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:15 pm 
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First, I feel I have to follow the prevailing consensus and state that yes, it seems a little hurried, pushed forward, if you like. Maybe after some more practicing, these fast runs might be better articulated and sound more convincing. Nevertheless, I'll congratulate your effort. You try to remain musical all the way through despite the technical difficulty. So, my vote is a positive one.
I detect a significant improvement in your playing towards the end which means that if you had done another take, maybe it would be much better at the beginning also.

[...answering to your reply at the other post]
I'm also happy to meet again with you Andreas, as well with all my other friends here. Unfortunately, my time is limited. I'll definitely work on new recordings but at a slower pace. Meantime, I'll struggle to find the time to listen to your recordings and comment when possible. I really missed you guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Hi Andreas,

Wow, that rendition of the Impromptu left me agog! It's almost like playing the "Flight of the Bumblebee" in the RH throughout. And you almost always are able to maintain fine evenness too. There's no way I could play it. It would sound altogether too ragged. Speed like that has always been my nemesis. :( Anyway, I enjoyed listening. My hat is off to you. :)

David

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:00 pm 
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While I cannot claim to have played this since the Middle Ages (I started it at the Renaissance) I do hope I know it resonably well. I cannot claim to pay it this fast throughtout, but I have tried and managed till the page turn! Section A is good, but I notice some ups and downs in the b section. I notice you slow down towards the codetta of B, which is something I had never thought of doing myself.

Maybe a bit of tranquility overall would help the interpretation.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:11 am 
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I'm with Chris on this one. It sounds like you've chosen a tempo that's ever so slightly beyond what you can manage on such short notice ;-) (Three hours! I wouldn't like to try the same myself!) It's nothing to do with the pedalling; the tone is uneven, with some notes very much quieter than others. Actually I wouldn't mind if you used even a little more pedal, as long as the finger technique is good enough to support it.

Let's be very precise about this. The first note of bar 2 (the A flat) isn't distinct enough. I can't tell for sure at this speed, but I suspect that when you put your 4th finger over for the B flat at the end of bar 1 you get a bump in the sound at that point, meaning that the following note is quieter, so it sounds a little uneven. The second note of bar 3 (D natural) is almost inaudible. The second note of bar 4 (E sharp) is missing, as far as I can tell. You got all the notes in bar 5, but there's a "bump" crossing the bar line from bar 5 to bar 6: you land a bit too heavily on your thumb at the start of bar 6, so it doesn't sound quite legato. And so on.

(Of course I had to listen to it several times to hear all these details. My initial impression was just "it sounds a bit scrambled.")

I didn't hear any wrong notes as such.

I hope you don't mind me putting it under the microscope in this way. I mean it in a constructive way: I'm sure you're capable of fixing all these things once you're aware of what to listen for. I like the spirit in which you approach this piece, and I think the middle section is convincing.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:35 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
Haha I like that. You're not actually agreeing with me are you, if only to a certain level ? :lol:
Or are you simply resting your case ?


No, I´m not "resting my case" (I don´t really dare here to use such idiomatic english expressions, because I feel much too unsure with that :wink: ). Indeed, I mean, what I have written. I don´t agree completely with you, but only to a certain level (german: bis zu einem gewissen Grad).

Quote:
Don't get lost in the Thomaskirche !


Yippee, I have not been lost in the Thomaskirche! :D :lol: But I have brought many "treasures" from my field excursion. I think, I will make a thread in the general forum one nice day to let you participate all here a bit. And for you, Chris, I have a little private present, which will interest you, I´m sure.

I have played the Impromptu, op. 90, no.2, btw, for my pupils in Leipzig in the Mendelssohn-Museum, Goldschmidtstraße 12 in Leipzig on a super Bösendörfer grand-piano in the "salon-room", in which Mendelssohn himself played always for his guests and the guests themselves played there, too, of course. To these guests counted Clara and Robert Schumann, Friedrich Wieck, Wagner, Chopin and much more, of course. I also have played some Songs Without Words there. Concerning the Impromptu I have played the runs there a little bit slower and I think I have found a version now, which is good and better than my version here above.
Btw, I don´t think, the Impromptus count to the "difficult" pieces. They more are for the beginners than for the advanced players from the technical view. Musically you always can work on them, of course. I think, my speed in the runs in the version here above was just a little bit too high. (But I wanted that, of course. :twisted: :lol: )

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Last edited by musicusblau on Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Wiser_guy wrote:
Quote:
Maybe after some more practicing, these fast runs might be better articulated and sound more convincing.


Yes, right.

Quote:
So, my vote is a positive one.


Thanks for that.

Quote:
I'm also happy to meet again with you Andreas, as well with all my other friends here. Unfortunately, my time is limited. I'll definitely work on new recordings but at a slower pace. Meantime, I'll struggle to find the time to listen to your recordings and comment when possible. I really missed you guys.


Nice to hear that, Pantelis. So, see you. :D

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Last edited by musicusblau on Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:49 pm 
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David wrote:
Quote:
Wow, that rendition of the Impromptu left me agog! It's almost like playing the "Flight of the Bumblebee" in the RH throughout. And you almost always are able to maintain fine evenness too. There's no way I could play it. It would sound altogether too ragged. Speed like that has always been my nemesis. :( Anyway, I enjoyed listening. My hat is off to you. :)


Thank you, David, for your praise and encouraging words. :D You seem to discover, what Chris (unfortunately) does not discover in my rendition, it´s the aspect of that expression of highest speed. I think, the speed is just a little bit too high in my version here, no problem for me to slow down a bit, of course. In Leipzig I have tried out a version, which is good now. (See above, please, what I wrote to Chris.) I also still think, that the B-section in the version above is a convincing interpretation.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:51 pm 
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richard666 wrote:
Quote:
Maybe a bit of tranquility overall would help the interpretation.


I agree, but mainly concerning the A-section. Thank you very much for your comment!

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:53 pm 
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hanysz wrote:
Quote:
I hope you don't mind me putting it under the microscope in this way. I mean it in a constructive way: I'm sure you're capable of fixing all these things once you're aware of what to listen for. I like the spirit in which you approach this piece, and I think the middle section is convincing.


I don´t mind that all. Thank you very much for your detailed and constructive comment and thanks for the praise also! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:45 pm 
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An exciting rendition which certainly makes an impression on the listener. As others have commented, the runs aren't always clear (I think this is more prevalent in the louder runs). It's the sort of performance which works well live but maybe not so well in a recorded context. Despite my reservations, I enjoyed it and am glad I listened.


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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:49 pm 
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andrew wrote:
Quote:
It's the sort of performance which works well live but maybe not so well in a recorded context.


Yes, I agree to that.

Quote:
Despite my reservations, I enjoyed it and am glad I listened.


Thank you for your kind comment. I´m glad you enjoyed it.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:04 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
richard666 wrote:
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Maybe a bit of tranquility overall would help the interpretation.


I agree, but mainly concerning the A-section. Thank you very much for your comment!


Perhars i should have been more specific, I did mean in section A, so we both agree on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Franz Schubert: Impromptu D899, op. 90, no. 2, Allegro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:14 pm 
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richard 666 wrote:
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Perhars i should have been more specific, I did mean in section A, so we both agree on that.


Ah, so much the better.

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