Re: Participation on Piano Society.

Polls? They're a cliche of how society brands things - analogous to sending a knee-jerk quick text message: "Awesome, OK, or Gaff." Then it's end of any further discussion! Music shouldn't be a public opinion poll for a Piano "Society." It doesn't offer the poster a convincing explanation of WHY something sounds the way it sounds. How then can one improve? Or reveal a new discovery? The intent of a forum is to share ideas, clarify issues, etc. There is always room for improvement, and music is no exception. In many ways, people who contribute through participation are providing an unintended service to the original poster, AND to those who are learning passively from the "participation" of many that is taking place. Hopefully, this motivates others to chime in. Surely one can offer an opinion, as in a poll, but a bold statement should lend itself to further discussion based on the basis of history, genre, musicology, and issues relating to style, thematic interpretation, acknowledged intentions of the composer/music based on experience and/or research, etc.

Having a poll places a scorecard on the submitter. The unintended human reaction to polls are that it can induce competition, jealousy, or intimidation among some musicians. This form of pop culture is perhaps more appropriate for youtube. The end result is that it may scare away or deter further submissions, let alone participation. This defeats the goal and this isn't what we're about.

There are a lot of ideas being thrown here by many members. To make sense out of confusion, doubt, disbelief, or frustration, there inevitably is a need at some point to reduce a complex or charged topic to its common denominator. Relating to participation, as can be said of anything that involves human behavior: There are givers and there are takers. There isn't anything we can do to affect a change in attitude of the takers to increase participation as one's behavior is ingrained in the psyche. The "Givers" will contribute through participation; The "Takers" won't contribute, but will expect to receive the "service" upon every submission - another set of ears. I've seen even rude and selfish levels expectations for acknowledgment and appraisal of some submissions. Egocentric and arrogant behavior is the equivalent of the 'common cold' in music. I believe that this characteristic can even permeate into one's recording, heard often as that stuffy-nosed, aloof, impersonal, uninspiring interpretation. This is perhaps even more revealing on a video as body language.

I think the intent for every recording on PS should be communication and evaluation. It promotes dialog and discussion which leads to discovery, dissemination of new ideas, clarification, and improvement.

Moral of the story to the Takers (you know who you are!)
It's always better to give than to receive. Why?... You'll have more real friends here and in real life! It will give you what you're lacking - receiving more unexpected 'services' than expected ones for a change. It's far sweeter to be pleasantly surprised in receiving an unexpected 'service than an expected one from someone. N'est pas?... So return the favor, chip in where others need your advice - Participate in the brotherhood of music here on Piano Society.

What a coincidence to see this post - I've just come back here after months (or is it years?) of inactivity, but haven't been removed from the main site because I was never there in the first place. Encouraging participation in this way sounds like a good idea. I remember that the other members were very helpful to me when I asked for advice and posted an awful recording a while ago, so I really value this forum. I will try to visit this site more often and spend less time on Facebook from now on.

while i understand the need for more active participation, and i think to interpretation and technique discussions on the board as an outstanding peculiarity of this website, i would like to point out an obvious thing, that artistic quality has nothing to do with commenting skills. i think everyone is aware that many of the best recordings on this website come from non active posters. i would not be happy if they were to be replaced with lower artistic quality recordings from more active posters! this would turn out in giving overall poorer resources for students an pianists. artistic and commenting skills are totally different matters, and i think this issue has to be dealt differently. well, just my two cents, with no polemical intent of course.
have a nice weekend
Mr Duffy

Hi Mr. Duffy. It's been some time since we've seen you! And while I'm glad you chimed in here, I have to say that I feel a little bit slighted by what you said. Maybe a few 'not-so-great' recordings have made it up onto the site in the past, but these days we are much more choosy, careful, and accept only very good recordings. I don't believe I have put up a certain member's recording only because he/she participates on our forum, since I strongly believe that PS should host only quality recordings with interpretations at least somewhat close to the composer's intention. Besides that, those members whom we have eliminated were basically one-hit wonders with insignificant recordings. One more thing - several of our 'active' members these days do in fact submit highly-artistic and fine recordings. Which reminds me, will we ever get to hear you play? Come on....don't be afraid....just jump right in! Have a nice week.

May I say something?

I joined some time ago at first after listening to Bortkiewicz. Having done that I went on to securing his sheet music. In less than 4 months I went from someone who had never even heard the name to being the owner of his complete existing piano oeuvre, a priviledge only shared by Mozart.

It was also here I managed to hear for the first time a recording of one of Bach's Toccatas - and I have played it now for over 20 years!

Have I made any criticism of the works here present? Well, no, because I am still hoping to be able to post some of my own recordings, but I am aware that they are not up to the standards required by the site and I feel that to comment on recordings by others I should also be out there to be commented on. As my resources at present are an MP3 portable recorder and an East German upright I wonder If anything will ever be done.

I must say I am at times surprised by the high quality of some of the new recordings: not only are the pianos in impeccable tune, but the recordings compare very positively to "studio" ones. I am thinking of one of Bortkiewicz's consolations, recorded by Pianolady.

I would be sorry to be given the order of the boot, though I will understand if it comes.

Thank you for the kind words, Richard, not just about my recording, but how you like our site's quality of recordings. In-tune pianos and good sound-quality are secondary to the quality of the actual performance, but they are also important. And you do not have to worry about getting the boot. It pertains to members of Piano Society's main site - those who have recordings (or hardly any recordings) on the site, but never bother to visit the forum besides submitting their own recordings. Forum-only members who take a moment to comment are as much appreciated as full-members, so please feel free to continue doing so - even if you do not have recordings on the site.

Hello Monica,
Just to bring a very small contribution to this discussion: before kicking out some people (and their recordings), let's make sure there are no jewels going to the bin. For instance, I discovered some months ago on this site a concert recording of Beethoven's Diabelli variations by a gentleman who was educated at Julliard School, and who does not seem to show up these last years. But the recording is not only the single one we have of this chef d'oeuvre, but it is also immense as a piano performance. Please, have mercy for great art ! Regards,

I have taken that into account when doing a cleanup some time ago, and I don't think I have removed any great/unique recordings.
I assume you mean the O'Doan version ? Or was there another one That's now gone ? Mr. O'Doan has never been here, his recordings were taken over from a no defunct label called Pandora.

Yes it was. OK, I thought he was a early, but now gone member.

I have the same problem really. I have an excellent Steinway D to record on (though our piano technician frustrates me with his shoddy tuning) but no recorder. A friend was nice enough to lend me one and I only managed to use it as a practice tool as I got obsessed with Chopin 25/11 and convinced myself I could work it up before I had to send the recorder back. Which, of course, I didn't. So I often feel stupid commenting on others' recordings since I don't have any of my own.

Also, I am much better at offering criticism than I am with offering compliments. Part of that is because I am extremely picky and not even likely to compliment a professional recording much.

Edit: I meant to say that I am happy PS has decided to clean out some. There are just too many recordings to go through, and no way to tell which ones are good and which aren't. Of course there need not be any such discernment for the regular members of the forum beyond the usual, but it always bothered me that PS had to spend so much money for bandwidth and such for random people who drop halfway-decent recordings in the Audition room and then disappear. Every so often, submissions are good enough that the admins have been grateful for them despite the non-fraternization of the pianists in question, but from my experience this has been rare. And of course, it's also different if said random people submit unique recordings to the site, but it's the repeat recordings of the same piece that are bothersome when browsing through the home page.

I didn't see this post before. I like what you said, Terez. I do not have much else to add, except there are still a few more subpar recordings I'd like to eliminate. I have in fact eliminated a few of my own too.

Wow, I've been away for some time and see that the site is HUGE now! Well, first greetings to all members and congratulations on your continued work studying, recording, and reviewing. I would have loved to have been here with you all but during my absence from PS I fell in love, carried on a long-distance relationship, got engaged, bought a house, got married and spent time travelling in China and Hong Kong. Now that I am back in the US and have settled down I plan to be here much more frequently.

Having said that, I appreciate having not been kicked off of the site. I would love to submit more recordings but like many here, no longer have access to the kind of facilities that can produce the quality of recording that I would like to post. I do love listening to everybody's work, though, and will try to comment regularly.

Best wishes to everybody for a happy, healthy, and prosperous 2011.

Dave

Gawd, what a bunch of lame excuses not to be here
Anyway welcome back. Just in time not to get kicked off

Yes we did notice that. You're also rather biased towards Chopin and Bach, if you don't mind me saying so.


Yes that is the core of it. Keeping up with regular contributors is no great hardship, but the work we do for the 'one-hit wonders' seems wasted. I may well clean up more in the future (very judiciously of course). So far only one of them came back to ask why. All the others evidently don't care.

Just a few comments.

Mr Duffy said :



I agree with Mr Duffy. You might lose many good recordings because of someone's lack of ability to make original comments which is self-defeating in the long run.

The Audition Room is essentially Moderator driven and, in many cases, where the moderator provides a detailed criticism of a submission, there isn't anything more to be said and I don't see the point of saying "yes, that's right" or "yes, I agree" just for the sake of being visible. Making comments for the sake of it are pointless.

If you are worried that recordings from artists who fail to comment are taking up server space then why not charge an annual fee for hosting recordings ?

Mark