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 Post subject: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:57 am 
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I have recently came across a trailer for a Chopin movie. It looks ALRIGHT, I dont know I have not seen it. I would like to know if anyone has seen this movie, and knows where to buy it. What would you say you would give this movie on a scale of 1-10. I think it focuses more on love than piano. eh?
Here is the trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-E6zenYkI


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:13 am 
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I have the video and it's pretty bad. I give it a four on the scale, which is generous only because I just like anything related to Chopin. See if you can rent it rather than buy it.

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:29 am 
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pianolady wrote:
I have the video and it's pretty bad. I give it a four on the scale, which is generous only because I just like anything related to Chopin. See if you can rent it rather than buy it.

Ahh. I see. thank you very much. To be honest the only reason why I watched it to the end is because it had to do with Chopin.


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Location: Boston
Chopininoff wrote:
Quote:
I have recently came across a trailer for a Chopin movie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-E6zenYkI
YAWN!

Looks like another feeble, incurable romantic, and foolish rendition, with a Freudian twist this time. When it comes to Chopin, it seems that every misrepresentation has been put to film, all except for the historical truth. Even in the musical world, Chopin has been portrayed as a feeble, weak spirited, romance ridden misguided soul for over 100 years. Pianists helped to perpetuate this myth too, until the Polish pianist, Rubinstein, altered a change in attitude. Someday, a movie maker will get the facts and intentions correct without having to appeal to an already sappy genre. But, by then we will have been bored to tears on the subject. Nostalgia, the national bard of Poland, isolation, love lost, psychological issues, mortal illness - these are enough character attributes to give a basis for a movie with substance.

Konstancja Gładkowska was a fantasized love from his Warsaw Conservatory days, which bears inspiration in the Largetto movement of the F Minor Concerto, and Maria Wodzińska was another love to whom he gave his only marriage proposal, hence the Op. 69/1 "Farewell Waltz," among a few others. Both young Polish ladies were in essence only a dream of love - a fervent memory of an idealized image. I wonder had he married one of them, how might have his music changed? His psyche? His security in Paris? Perhaps his isolation and nostalgia would've been mitigated had he married a Polish woman from his homeland, especially living in a foreign city, and bearing nostalgic feelings about home, Poland, family, friends, and his love(s). I feel that Sand was a 'rebound chick' for Chopin; the proverbial 'Ms Right Now," and not 'Ms. Right.' However, only as time wore on did he needed her more as a nurse than she needed him as a lover with his failing health. Undeservedly, that part of the relationship wasn't fair to her. Whether it pertains to this Chopin movie or not, in any case, I feel that the Chopin-Sand relationship was weird.

The only composer-movie that bears a hint of merit is Immortal Beloved, perhaps better than Amadeus. It's narrated by his good friend, Anton Schindler. He also wrote a book Beethoven, As I knew Him. It's worth seeing the movie because it was well consulted with musical scholars - Sir George Solti, with Perahia playing the piano, etc. Again Beethoven's 'immortal beloved' is still debated, but it's more substantial than the sappy and wild rendition of Chopin's trailer.

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"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:19 pm 
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88man wrote:
Konstancja Gładkowska was a fantasized love from his Warsaw Conservatory days, which bears inspiration in the Largetto movement of the F Minor Concerto, and Maria Wodzińska was another love to whom he gave his only marriage proposal, hence the Op. 69/1 "Farewell Waltz," among a few others. Both young Polish ladies were in essence only a dream of love - a fervent memory of an idealized image. I wonder had he married one of them, how might have his music changed? His psyche? His security in Paris? Perhaps his isolation and nostalgia would've been mitigated had he married a Polish woman from his homeland, especially living in a foreign city, and bearing nostalgic feelings about home, Poland, family, friends, and his love(s). I feel that Sand was a 'rebound chick' for Chopin; the proverbial 'Ms Right Now," and not 'Ms. Right.' However, only as time wore on did he needed her more as a nurse than she needed him as a lover with his failing health. Undeservedly, that part of the relationship wasn't fair to her. Whether it pertains to this Chopin movie or not, in any case, I feel that the Chopin-Sand relationship was weird.


I've wondered about that myself. Had he been a happily married husband and father, could he have produced the music he did? Would we have 'our' Chopin today if his life had been different? And his time with Sand - even though their relationship lasted ten years, there were plenty of times when he was depressed and anxious so all that comes out in his music.


88man wrote:
The only composer-movie that bears a hint of merit is Immortal Beloved, perhaps better than Amadeus. It's narrated by his good friend, Anton Schindler. He also wrote a book Beethoven, As I knew Him. It's worth seeing the movie because it was well consulted with musical scholars - Sir George Solti, with Perahia playing the piano, etc. Again Beethoven's 'immortal beloved' is still debated, but it's more substantial than the sappy and wild rendition of Chopin's trailer.


I loved Amadeus and Immortal Beloved! That scene in IB when he's lying down and looking at the stars in the night sky and the 'you-know-what' music is playing just kills me. (don't want to give anything away if people have not seen the movie.)

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:46 pm 
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I'm still convinced that Chopin was in the closet (as was pretty much everyone those days, maybe George too). His letters to Tytus were steamy! And I wonder about Gutmann too.

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:07 pm 
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Terez wrote:
I'm still convinced that Chopin was in the closet (as was pretty much everyone those days, maybe George too). His letters to Tytus were steamy! And I wonder about Gutmann too.

Most great composers/pianists are either
A. gay (Tchaikovsky, Richter, Horowitz, , Chopin(?) Pletnev,Liberace(...lol stupid of me to put his name)
B. Mad (Beethoven, Scriabin, Schumann )
C. Deaf (Beethoven, Richter (was losing his hearing)
D. Die at a young age (Chopin, Schubert, Scriabin)
E. Have some disease (Schubert, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Scriabin Prokofiev, (cerebral hemorrhage) Rimsky-Korsakov (angina) Ravel (aphasia)
Did I leave anything out?


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:52 am 
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Posts: 418
Location: Boston
Quote:
... And his time with Sand - even though their relationship lasted ten years, there were plenty of times when he was depressed and anxious so all that comes out in his music.
Monica, I see it this way: Konstancja Gładkowska was the crush of his life as she was so beautiful, and they were both young conservatory students; and Maria Wodzińska was the love of his life to whom he proposed, and later placed her letters in an envelope labeled "My Sorrows" in Polish with respect to his deep loss...

Quote:
I loved Amadeus and Immortal Beloved! That scene in IB when he's lying down and looking at the stars in the night sky and the 'you-know-what' music is playing just kills me.
Absolutely Monica! It's the best musical 'tiramisu' that I know of... I saw it on DVD, and liked it so much that I also bought it on Blu-ray. Now I am in the mood to watch it again, why don't you, Terez, and Chopininoff come on over next weekend, and we'll all watch it over wine and real tiramisu. :D The only thing is you'll have to bring the tiramisu, because I don't know how to make it. :P

Quote:
I'm still convinced that Chopin was in the closet (as was pretty much everyone those days, maybe George too). His letters to Tytus were steamy!
Terez, I am inclined to think that if Tytus was present in that salon in Paris, he would have pulled him aside and instilled some brotherly sense into Chopin about George Sand. He was vulnerable, lost, displaced, and somewhat insecure by the time he arrived in Paris. Poles lived in fear, even in Paris, as Russian spies were notorious for hunting down Polish nationals.
I don't agree that Chopin was gay - maybe in May, but not every day. :lol: Hey, who knows, Mme Dudevent may have been a "Dude" after all? :P But seriously, the fact that young Chopin lacked a big brother or fatherly figure in Paris may have made him indecisive in his selection of women. His TB didn't encourage much confidence either as he knew that his years would be numbered.

Quote:
Most great composers/pianists are either
A. gay (Tchaikovsky, Richter, Horowitz, , Chopin(?) Pletnev,Liberace(...lol stupid of me to put his name)
B. Mad (Beethoven, Scriabin, Schumann )
C. Deaf (Beethoven, Richter (was losing his hearing)
D. Die at a young age (Chopin, Schubert, Scriabin)
E. Have some disease (Schubert, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Scriabin Prokofiev, (cerebral hemorrhage) Rimsky-Korsakov (angina) Ravel (aphasia)
Did I leave anything out?
Chopininoff, the list is long indeed. F. Blind (Grainger, Rubinstein, etc.); G. Handicap (Fleischer, etc.); etc... However, human civilization has struggled to see the similarities among fellow beings, more than their differences. Life is full of contrasts, as in a great painting, without which life would be monotonous, as on a blank canvas. There can be no light without darkness. Some are not intimidated by adversity in life, rather they are inspired to overcome it, whether it's dealing with a loss, illness, emotional, financial, or physical defect, etc. That's a tough sell in our superficial times, perhaps that's why most people are incapable to cope with the rigors of life, let alone rise above the level of mediocrity. The depth of our perception, understanding, and visualization is molded by the gamut our life's experiences. Only through suffering, exertion, and loss can there be a musical story worth telling to appreciate the elation of spirits during the happier times. As I look down your list, I can't help but to think that these musicians championed above any mortal illness to overcome their adversity in achieving the realm of immortal greatness. One remarkable legacy of greatness is its power to forgive or mask any personal defect in its presence.

George

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"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:12 am 
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88man wrote:
Quote:
... And his time with Sand - even though their relationship lasted ten years, there were plenty of times when he was depressed and anxious so all that comes out in his music.
Monica, I see it this way: Konstancja Gładkowska was the crush of his life as she was so beautiful, and they were both young conservatory students; and Maria Wodzińska was the love of his life to whom he proposed, and later placed her letters in an envelope labeled "My Sorrows" in Polish with respect to his deep loss...

Quote:
I loved Amadeus and Immortal Beloved! That scene in IB when he's lying down and looking at the stars in the night sky and the 'you-know-what' music is playing just kills me.
Absolutely Monica! It's the best musical 'tiramisu' that I know of... I saw it on DVD, and liked it so much that I also bought it on Blu-ray. Now I am in the mood to watch it again, why don't you, Terez, and Chopininoff come on over next weekend, and we'll all watch it over wine and real tiramisu. :D The only thing is you'll have to bring the tiramisu, because I don't know how to make it. :P

Quote:
I'm still convinced that Chopin was in the closet (as was pretty much everyone those days, maybe George too). His letters to Tytus were steamy!
Terez, I am inclined to think that if Tytus was present in that salon in Paris, he would have pulled him aside and instilled some brotherly sense into Chopin about George Sand. He was vulnerable, lost, displaced, and somewhat insecure by the time he arrived in Paris. Poles lived in fear, even in Paris, as Russian spies were notorious for hunting down Polish nationals.
I don't agree that Chopin was gay - maybe in May, but not every day. :lol: Hey, who knows, Mme Dudevent may have been a "Dude" after all? :P But seriously, the fact that young Chopin lacked a big brother or fatherly figure in Paris may have made him indecisive in his selection of women. His TB didn't encourage much confidence either as he knew that his years would be numbered.

Quote:
Most great composers/pianists are either
A. gay (Tchaikovsky, Richter, Horowitz, , Chopin(?) Pletnev,Liberace(...lol stupid of me to put his name)
B. Mad (Beethoven, Scriabin, Schumann )
C. Deaf (Beethoven, Richter (was losing his hearing)
D. Die at a young age (Chopin, Schubert, Scriabin)
E. Have some disease (Schubert, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Scriabin Prokofiev, (cerebral hemorrhage) Rimsky-Korsakov (angina) Ravel (aphasia)
Did I leave anything out?
Chopininoff, the list is long indeed. F. Blind (Grainger, Rubinstein, etc.); G. Handicap (Fleischer, etc.); etc... However, human civilization has struggled to see the similarities among fellow beings, more than their differences. Life is full of contrasts, as in a great painting, without which life would be monotonous, as on a blank canvas. There can be no light without darkness. Some are not intimidated by adversity in life, rather they are inspired to overcome it, whether it's dealing with a loss, illness, emotional, financial, or physical defect, etc. That's a tough sell in our superficial times, perhaps that's why most people are incapable to cope with the rigors of life, let alone rise above the level of mediocrity. The depth of our perception, understanding, and visualization is molded by the gamut our life's experiences. Only through suffering, exertion, and loss can there be a musical story worth telling to appreciate the elation of spirits during the happier times. As I look down your list, I can't help but to think that these musicians championed above any mortal illness to overcome their adversity in achieving the realm of immortal greatness. One remarkable legacy of greatness is its power to forgive or mask any personal defect in its presence.

George

To be honest. I think their music is this beautiful because of their suffering, tragedies, loss. Chopin's heart was broken and it is heard in his music. Without a doubt. Scriabin was insane! It his heard in his music as well! In a way I feel that if certain events did not happen to composers, their music would not be the same! Rachmaninoff 2nd piano concerto for instance, if he did not go into depression of after the 1st symphony, he would not have written the 2nd concerto! Just some exmaples
Nikolai


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:07 pm 
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ok, I'll bring the tiramisu. :)

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:25 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
ok, I'll bring the tiramisu. :)

Whipped cream and cinnamon on mine please =D


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:41 pm 
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oh, you're making me hungry. And I just got back from an exercise class. Now I'm going to have eat something delectable and then go right back to the gym.... :lol:

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:46 pm 
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ok, I'm back from the gym again (not really). But I did eat a popsicle and then practiced for two hours straight, so....

Anyway, I just want to say that I don't believe Chopin was gay either. Besides that he fell in love with three women - lots of those folks back then spoke in a 'flowery' way, that's all. But can you imagine how he would feel knowing that a lot of his personal letters are public? How would you feel if your personal 'emails' were open to the public? And too bad Sand had to go and burn all the letters he sent her. At least I think she did...

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:09 pm 
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Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
pianolady wrote:
ok, I'm back from the gym again (not really). But I did eat a popsicle and then practiced for two hours straight, so....

Anyway, I just want to say that I don't believe Chopin was gay either. Besides that he fell in love with three women - lots of those folks back then spoke in a 'flowery' way, that's all.

I respect your opinion (it's not that big a deal to me), but even today, a lot of homosexuals are actually in denial to the point that they get married to the opposite sex, and some convince themselves it's what they want. Also, his letters to Tytus were markedly different from his letters to anyone else. I am thinking it was Siepmann that addressed the issue most fairly, but even he failed to address some of the juicier bits in those letters. :lol: The collection we discussed that has letters to Chopin as well as ones he wrote...that edition cuts out the juicy bits entirely!

Monica wrote:
But can you imagine how he would feel knowing that a lot of his personal letters are public? How would you feel if your personal 'emails' were open to the public? And too bad Sand had to go and burn all the letters he sent her. At least I think she did...

Yeah, there are only a few surviving ones, and they're mostly uninteresting. Also, everything I have read indicates that their relationship was not physically intimate for very long, and that he was the one that cut it off. At least one biographer asserts that Sand carved the date into her bedroom wall. Some think that was when the sex started, but other evidence doesn't seem to support that opinion.

I think that Chopin was aware that his letters would be read by others when he died, perhaps even made public - it was common practice at the time, and he knew he was a celebrity. That is why some letters were burned.

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin- Desire for love
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:03 pm 
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You know Theresa - sometimes I'm not sure if I'm remembering something about Chopin from one of the books I've read, or if it is from something you said... :lol:

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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