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 Post subject: Mozart a minor Sonata K 310 2nd mvt.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
I'm currently working on this sonata alongside with that old Rach-Bach (my memory card in the recorder has no more free space since it is filled with all the unsatisfying takes of that set... :x and I can't be bothered with deleting the files or replacing it with another memory card...).
I have borrowed two editions (Henle and WUE) from the library and have problem with bar 39 and 41/42 on the second mvt.
(1) The D with trill sign (RH) on bar 39: Henle has a flat in "()" on the trill sign (which means E flat), but WUE has nothing. When you play it after WUE, you get a strange sound. The famous performers on YT and on CDs play it either after Henle or with C sharp (and E natural; Arrau does this).
(2) The D' with trill sign (RH) on bar 41/42: Both editions has added nothing on that trill sign, but many performers play it with C sharp and so does it sound good.
Can anybody help me to find the right way?

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Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


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 Post subject: Re: Mozart a minor Sonata K 310 2nd mvt.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
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Location: Germany
Are my questions unclear or is there no one who is interested in this repertoire? :(

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Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


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 Post subject: Re: Mozart a minor Sonata K 310 2nd mvt.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:02 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Piemonte, Italy
Hi Hye-Jin,

I saw your question last week but then was in a hurry and later I forgot to reply. It's good that you've refreshed your post.

(1) The auxiliary note. Henle has E-flat in brackets because the upper note could be E-flat instead of E-natural. This can be easily explained looking at the harmony. In bars 37-39 there is a modulation to G minor (as part of a larger modulation process - after all, you are in the very turmoil of the development section), but in bar 39 that G minor is also IV degree (subdominant) of D minor, where Mozart seems to lead the foreseeable next step of the progression (which doesn't happen, since in bars 40-41 you have a deceptive cadence to the VI degree - but never mind, it's irrelevant to our purposes here). Now, since E-flat belongs to the G minor scale and E-natural to the D minor scale, both E-flat and E-natural are OK as auxiliary note of the trill at bar 39. Of course they have a different tone color and you can choose according to you taste.

(2) Here's some useful info: http://www.oldflutes.com/articles/class ... /index.htm

I hope this can help you!

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Alfonso Bertazzi, amateur pianist.


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 Post subject: Re: Mozart a minor Sonata K 310 2nd mvt.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
Thank you very much, Alfonso! (Did you have vacations? I haven't see you here for a long time!)
Yes, you helped me a lot, since I was thinking there is only a single right way to play trills when it is a question of tones/tonalities in trills. (Of cours I was concious that various orders of notes in trills are possible, like in the article you linked.)
But I didn't catch what you want to illustrate to me through that article... :oops: All things there are concerned about the starting of a trill (from upper/main note), or not? Did I overlook something? :oops: :oops:

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Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


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 Post subject: Re: Mozart a minor Sonata K 310 2nd mvt.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:02 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Piemonte, Italy
hyenal wrote:
Thank you very much, Alfonso! (Did you have vacations? I haven't see you here for a long time!)


No vacation, unfortunately (I'll be on vacation at the end of May till early June, though). Fact is, I've been spending all my spare time at the piano, on Bach's Italian Concerto and Brahms's Opus 119.

hyenal wrote:
But I didn't catch what you want to illustrate to me through that article... :oops: All things there are concerned about the starting of a trill (from upper/main note), or not? Did I overlook something? :oops: :oops:


The article talks about trills' ending also. Look at picture 2 (from Leopold Mozart's Violinschule). Even if there aren't other indications (just the "tr" sign) trills start from the upper note and usually have a turn at the end (so, you should end the trill you mentioned with E-D-C#-D). Generally speaking, all the ornaments must be linked, integrated melodically in the flow of the music.

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"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

Alfonso Bertazzi, amateur pianist.


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 Post subject: Re: Mozart a minor Sonata K 310 2nd mvt.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
Oh, sorry about my lazy reading... (I have bought a new notebook computer last week and this display is still not very comfortable - could it be an excuse? :wink:)
Wow, the Italian Concerto and that Brahms must be very challenging. Enjoy your practice and I am looking forward to listen to them!

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Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


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