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 Post subject: Another Orgelbüchlein item
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:08 pm 
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Next one in the Bach Orgelbüchlein cycle. This is an ingenious little canon, where the pedal consistenly follows the RH chorale theme one bar later, while both hands fill the space in between with lots of notes. This is also remarkable in that the pedal part reaches up to the very highest note.

Bach - Orgelbüchlein - BWV 600 - Gott, durch seine Güte

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:09 pm 
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I think the file is bad. Audio skips all over the place.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:13 pm 
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PJF wrote:
I think the file is bad. Audio skips all over the place.

Nope, nothing wrong with the file... I check every file before putting it up and also after,
to make sure it's ok. Maybe it's my playing that skips all over the place :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:53 pm 
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I get this effect, like a CD skipping. When you listen to the file, do you hear the clicking and skipping or a smooth playback? Maybe it's my computer's problem?

Confused,
pete


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:01 pm 
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I downloaded it back and could hear no problems with it. Strange ! Maybe your comp is allergic to organ music, having been weaned on piano too long...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:16 pm 
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I had no problem with the file.

I'm trying to become a better listener as far as organ music goes- can you point out the time (ex. 0.25) where the pedal reaches the highest note?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:21 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
can you point out the time (ex. 0.25) where the pedal reaches the highest note?

Yes, it's at 0:12. Pretty nasty moment, doesn't happen all that much in organ music.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:35 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Yes, it's at 0:12. Pretty nasty moment, doesn't happen all that much in organ music.


Why do you say that? I didn't hear the high pedal note but I didn't hear anything nasty, either.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:55 pm 
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I meant to say it's pretty difficult to reach, at the far right end of the pedal keyboard. It's only the first (or perhaps second) time I encountered this so far. It's pretty extreme according to my teacher.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:07 pm 
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Ohhhh. Maybe you have to do the 'splits' with your legs. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:45 pm 
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sounds good to me, You footwork is very fast for this work. Am I right??
No problem with the down load.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:50 am 
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I was using quicktime. I switched to Windows Media Player and the playback is smooth, now. So, I'm guessing the file type wasn't entirely compatible with QT. Either way, it was good!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:02 am 
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johnmar78 wrote:
sounds good to me, You footwork is very fast for this work. Am I right??

That is probably an illusion. The feet, and top RH, only play half and whole notes (it's a 6/4 measure), the RH plays eights and the LH plays quarter notes. Because the pedal part is so high, it sounds in places as if the running quarters are played by the pedal. It's an amazingly inventive and effective piece indeed. Who could do it but Bach...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:46 pm 
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Just another one virtuos played organ piece!

However at this speed and especially amount of reverb it gets way blurred. Hopefully you did not add extra reverb! The church reverb is not avoidable of course, but maybe a slower version would work better in order to catch a bit more of the accompaignement beside the melody. Although all those Orgelbüchlein items are coming from chorales whose melody can be sung, they must not be played that one can indeed sing to the melody (so said my organ teacher).

Beside that, if sitting in the middle the high f is same distance for right feet as the low c to the left feet. And the low c is often used from Bach. Nevertheless interesting that he used the high f because the pedal tones were often more limited in his times as nowadays. I am not sure, but I think on "my" organ it goes to the high g, but it is also almost a modern organ, no baroque one (from about 1905).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:26 pm 
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MindenBlues wrote:
However at this speed and especially amount of reverb it gets way blurred. Hopefully you did not add extra reverb!

Ah but I did... Light Concert Hall as usual. I find the acoustic in my regular church too dry otherwise. I like to have a bit of a 'churchy' sound even though it means losing some of the clarity . On the bright side I don't need to use reverb in the booming basilica that I now sometimes play in (you won't like the bwv686 that I recorded there :P ) Talk about blurred.

MindenBlues wrote:
Beside that, if sitting in the middle the high f is same distance for right feet as the low c to the left feet. And the low c is often used from Bach. Nevertheless interesting that he used the high f because the pedal tones were often more limited in his times as nowadays. I am not sure, but I think on "my" organ it goes to the high g, but it is also almost a modern organ, no baroque one (from about 1905).

Yes, distance-wise it should not be the same and not more difficult. I think high notes are more difficult just because they are so much less common. I have the same problem in the 'Christ, unser Herr zum Jordan kam', some very high notes in the cantus firmus though not right up to high f.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:16 pm 
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Fast and well played but blurred with all the reverb. The organ sounds well I think. Is it a large church or why is there so much reverb?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:57 pm 
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robert wrote:
Fast and well played but blurred with all the reverb. The organ sounds well I think. Is it a large church or why is there so much reverb?

Same smallish church as usual (I have no immediate recording plans, if at all, for the big one). The reverb is there because I like it that way (CoolEdit Light Concert Hall Reverb).

But perhaps it's too much here. I have attached the non-reverberated version, which to me sounds perhaps a little clearer but not as full as an organ should. It could well be that it just needs more detached playing. As you both moan about the reverb, can you and Olaf give me your opinions on which version is better ?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:48 am 
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To me it sounds a bit better, it has so already enough reverb, if not more than enough.

Bach unfortunately did not wrote down much about his registration. Interesting however, for this piece he explicitely wrote down what he liked: principal 8' for manual and trumpet 8' pedal. To me it sounds so as if you added a sharp mixture along (if not full plenum). To me, mixture has the drawback that long notes overshadow much more other fast played notes, as flute or principal registers do (maybe due to the high overtones). That means, maybe it will sound more transparent with the suggested registration by Bach (on my organ I unfortunately don't have trumpet 8' however). Maybe you used that registration, correct me if I am wrong.

Yesterday I checked the organ regarding pedal range - I need to correct myself, the pedal reaches also only to the high f, so it is also the highest possible note for pedal what Bach used.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:50 am 
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I have no Trumpet register either. Instead I use the Krummhorn on manual 2 coupled to the pedal. Because that produces rather a lot of sound, I choose to add the Mixture to the manual so as not to drown it out. I always like the mixture for festive pieces but as you say for the faster ones it may not be ideal. It would be nice to have an organ with all the possibilities Bach had... but we'll have to make do with what we have.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:09 am 
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I like this version better but you decide of course.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:19 pm 
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After listening to both versions several times I still prefer the reverberated version. The version without reverb is perhaps a little clearer, but not much, and I seem to hear the bass notes better in the reverberated version (that could be wishful thinking though...) Most important, without the reverb I miss that special church atmosphere that I like, it sounds too much like a cabinet organ. So I think I'll keep using the reverb for recordings made here. But I must really concentrate even harder on very clearly articulated and detached playing to keep things as transparent as possible.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:53 pm 
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According to the picture I have seen from your organ (manual in the middle, pipes on both side) it should be possible to record with less amount of reverb I think if you put it in the middle?

I listened yesterday to a professional recording of the Orgelbuechlein pieces, and on this piece it sounded to me like the usage of principal + kind of a lingual register for pedal. Even with reverb it sounded more transparent.

With that amount of reverb you have, you would almost need to play staccato all the time to recognize single notes (at least with mixture register). The combination mixture + additional reverb + fast notes does not sound too well in my opinion. Also, the pedal sound could come out more, the mixture overshadows it. But it's your decision.

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