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 Post subject: Some Chopin, Beethoven and Liszt
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:25 pm 
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Location: Cedarville University
Here are some recordings I made last night. They aren't quite what I want, but I think some constructive critism would be very helpful.

Chopin: Etudes Op. 10, No. 4 & 5 (No. 5 was a rather impromtu, one take deal)
Ballade No. 4, Op. 52 (I don't know what happened the sound at the end, I'll try to mix it down again later)

Liszt: Rhapsody No. 6 (another impromtu recording. I'm really quite ashamed of the horrible cadenza... that totally flopped! :evil: )

Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 30, Op. 109, Mvt. 1 (i don't know what to think of this take)

Thanks for your time!!!


Last edited by joeisapiano on Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:47 am 
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About the almost unbearable noise in the ballade and rhapsody: I think it has something to do with the hard drive as the original files have that same problem, so it is irreversable. the comments are still greatly appreciated, but I'll have to re-record them anyways.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:53 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
That sudden noise (in the Rhapsodie) scared the crap out of me! I turned up my speakers so I could hear the recording, but I never expected something like that! Hahaha! Oh well, it's good for the health to be spooked every once and a while :lol: :P Nice playing, reminds me of Van Cliburn.

I'll comment later on the others.


Edit:

Your Ballade is good, too bad for the recording.
Etudes as well are done nicely. Not on the aggression-level as Richter but certainly not laid back. (Can you go faster?)
Beethoven- Never heard this one before :oops: :roll:


Last edited by juufa72 on Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:00 pm 
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Quote:
That sudden noise (in the Rhapsodie) scared the crap out of me! I turned up my speakers so I could hear the recording, but I never expected something like that!


Sorry about that...others be warned!! :lol:

Quote:
Nice playing, reminds me of Van Cliburn.


whoa, thanks. :shock: not quite, imho...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:20 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
joeisapiano wrote:

whoa, thanks. :shock: not quite, imho...


be careful, I said "Reminds me of" not "You are" ...there are some slips in yours, but the way you played it (tempo, dynamics) is similar to Cliburn's. It is not fast-overkill like Lang Lang's HRs or Cziffra's. But I believe a little quicker and the dynamics do not vary dynamically (pp--->ffff) within a few notes (Cziffra). But let's not get into debate about Cziffra's playing. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:23 pm 
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juufa72 wrote:
joeisapiano wrote:

whoa, thanks. :shock: not quite, imho...


be careful, I said "Reminds me of" not "You are" ...there are some slips in yours, but the way you played it (tempo, dynamics) is similar to Cliburn's. It is not fast-overkill like Lang Lang's HRs or Cziffra's. But I believe a little quicker and the dynamics do not vary dynamically (pp--->ffff) within a few notes (Cziffra). But let's not get into debate about Cziffra's playing. 8)


didn't mean to imply that, i just like cliburn's playing in general.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:26 am 
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Joe, thank you for those recordings! One cannot say that you just recorded the easiest pieces - but you show that you can play those bravura pieces confident and very tasteful.

Man, maybe you hear it often - but you really are a very good virtuos playing pianist who can give people much joy if they can listen to your art.

And anyhow I don't feel qualified to criticize your achievement here since I never will be able to come close to that. Netherveless I try to give comments. If they don't make sense to you, forget them.

Chopin 10/4: You play amazingly fast but get it managed to play the right hand part soft at that speed. Overall you have very good dynamics there. There are only minor things left what differs from those high praized takes from Pollini or others. It sounds a very tiny bit hectic to me, can't describe why. Not really hectic, your hands are relaxed that you show through your soft playing at that speed.

Chopin 10/5: Another high speed piece, and well managed. There were some audible wrong notes to me, and the left hand part is played with too much staccato in the first part to my taste. Otherwise strong, also good dynamics.

Chopin Ballade op. 52: The most difficult ballade and you tackled it so very well! There are pianissimo parts you played as soft as only possible (also the left hand octave parts in 2nd page you played amazingly soft), and you are able to access the different dynamic sound colors as you like. Maybe in the beginning I could imagine an even more dreamery start with more rubato here - later you play more freely, so it seemed to me.
Hopefully you can make another mp3 file if the orignal wave file is undisturbed at the end.

I also liked listening to that Beethoven sonata movement. Regarding the Liszt Rhapsodie my opinion is biased because I don't like much the composition itself.

May I ask how long you practised on those master pieces? Your occupation says it all to me - PPP ("Professional Piano Practiser"). There seems lot what must be put in to get it out in the manner you do - both in time and energy.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:19 am 
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Certainly, the big virtuoso repertoire holds no terrors for you, you're fully up to the task - even that fearsome finale of Ballade 4 sounds pretty confident (as much as I could hear of it :roll: )

In the Ballade, you seem to be too matter-of-fact, and even a bit impatient, to capture the great poetry and depth of this work. It will come with time, I'm sure, but keep it in mind, as if I were standing next to you and yelling "Take your TIME !" :lol: I was surprised by how slow you take themiddle section, I never thought of it as a separate slow movement (like in the Fantaisie or the Liszt Sonata). Maybe there's good point in this but I thought it was too slow and disrupts the flow of the piece. Overall, try to see more of the long lines, and you can make more of that gorgeous section before the coda (with these rolling LH scales, like a ship at full sea, it reminds me of the 2nd Liszt Legende). Your sound could be a bit fuller which will come easier if you take your time.

I don't like the Liszt Rhapsodie 6 much either (though it was all I wanted to play at your age....). Of the entire set, it seems to me the one with the least musical substance (together with nr. 2). You take it a rather tame and cautious, except for the last part where the LH octaves start, you really let rip there in true Liszt spirit. What I like is your sharp and clean accenting (not just in this piece but generally) and the good dynamics.

The Etudes are good, and taken at top speed. Yet I'd slow down if I were you, to create some time to see and feel the music behind the notes. Espcially the nr. 5 gets a bit casual and shallow like this. Some rubato can also be applied in etudes, though not too much of course. Nr. 4 is really impressive.

Best for last, I like the Beethoven a lot. Great tone and feeling, perhaps a little abrupt in places, but that is Beethoven for you. Very well done. Now if only you could create some proper sounding recordings on a nice tuned grand, we'd have some real good stuff here !

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:54 am 
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techneut wrote:
Now if only you could create some proper sounding recordings on a nice tuned grand, we'd have some real good stuff here !


Come on, maybe the piano sounds a bit "colored" here and there, sounds however still tuned enough to me - on this stadium I would still not let the tuner come, but maybe I am too unsensitive regarding that. It is not fresh tuned, however the bass notes ring to me like a larger grand - such sonor bass sounds don't come out of my 1.80 m long grand unfortunately.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:07 pm 
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Thanks for the comments everyone!

Chris: I definetly agree with what you say about the ballade. The Black Key etude was just horrible, imo. The rhapsody was quite cautious, mostly out of fear of fatigue, since I havn't really practiced it much. As for the piano sound...it took me a while, but I finally figured out why the quality was so low. The next recordings should, as far as the recording quality goes, be much better.

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Joseph Kingma


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 Post subject: ciao
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:52 pm 
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You are a brave pianist. I like your dash in Chopin-Etude.
My regards and best wishs. :D
Robeto Carnevale


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:08 am 
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Great playing! It is something about your spirituel approach to the piano which I like. It sounds like you really enjoy the instrument and play it with a smile on your face. No battle with the instrument so to speak.

To the interpretations:

The Liszt Rhapsody is to my ears the best performance of them all. Not technically perfect but you handle the difficulties with the proper language of Liszt's virtuoso playing. This piece was built for giant concert halls and you play it like you were in one. Very good!

The Chopin Ballade is not bad either and I do not agree with previous poster. You gradually build up a tension which is finally released in the finale. I do not like when the first 80% is played too dreamy, to relaxed as it was a part not connected with the final powerful release of tension. A Ballade is a story and you tell it well and even though the story takes a dramatic change at the end, it is still the same story!

Beethoven. Sounds like you are not sure about your idea of interpretation and it is a bit underpowered (I know you have it). I think you should take the trouble of really understanding what Beethoven wished to say...or rather what you think Beethoven wished to say.

Chopin's 4:th etude. Really good and this is a piece I never succeeded to play though I really tried hard. Technically, it is as difficult for left as right hand which for me is a killer. But even though I think it is good, I know you can do better. It feels like there are some hours missing of practise and you miss the important chord just at the end.

Chopin's 5:th etude needs even more practise as you are run a bit out of control here and there and guess the keys. But it is damn difficult and you are not far from having a good version. So have a bit patience and you will get everything right as no technique is missing at your side.

Overall, very good!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:14 am 
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Just listened to the Black Key Etude. I think you have the potential to take your piano playing to the highest level. Your playing has dash (as Mr. Carnevale has noted) , velocity and moost importantly a love for the instrument and the music. The upbeat enthusiasm of your playing is contagious, I really enjoyed listening to this, the colorations and phrasing in your RH were beautiful. If this is "impromptu"
playing I'm looking forward to hearing the rest on them!

Do you listen to the pre WWII pianists, particularly Rubinstein, Moisewitch and Hofmann? I hear a bit of them in you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:12 pm 
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arensky wrote:
Just listened to the Black Key Etude. I think you have the potential to take your piano playing to the highest level. Your playing has dash (as Mr. Carnevale has noted) , velocity and moost importantly a love for the instrument and the music. The upbeat enthusiasm of your playing is contagious, I really enjoyed listening to this, the colorations and phrasing in your RH were beautiful. If this is "impromptu"
playing I'm looking forward to hearing the rest on them!

Do you listen to the pre WWII pianists, particularly Rubinstein, Moisewitch and Hofmann? I hear a bit of them in you.


well, thanks very much for your vote of confidence. I hope I'll live up to it. :)

I've never heard any Moisewitch or Hofmann recordings, but I do love Rubinstein, Horowitz, and, in particular, Rachmaninoff very much....but who doesn't? :lol:

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