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 Post subject: RE: pianoteq and other software synths/VSTs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm 
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Hey Guys, not sure if this is the place to ask but here goes.

Yesterday I got an inexpensive midi/usb cable as a gift. I then plugged my keyboard into my laptop and instantly I had access to hundreds of amazing sounds. I tried of course pianoteq, DSK keys for piano sounds, I tried a mini moog sound and other such fun things (VST modules).

The question I have is can I use something like pianoteq or DSK keys for recordings on the site or am I better off using the built in sounds of my keyboard. (I have always just used the simple line in cable to my desktop sound card.) The line in cable cost me a whole 1$ at the dollar store.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Hi Stan,

You are still playing the keys just like before, right? The only difference is the sound? I am not too familiar with this, but I think there are other members (not regular ones, though) who have done this kind of thing. As long as you don't edit the heck out of your recording - like speed it up, slow it down, correct wrong notes, etc..then I don't have a problem with it. Maybe you better wait until Chris chimes in, though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:42 pm 
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No editing involved of course :) I don't actually know how to do that kind of thing. Just using the sound capabilities of things like pianteq and DSK keys. Perhaps its best to provide 2 or 3 short samples? Or maybe I am just going in the wrong direction?

Actually all my recordings have no edits except for the start and end (which I need an edit to cut out things I played before the song started or after it finished if that makes any sense?) Not that it matters :)

pianolady wrote:
Hi Stan,

You are still playing the keys just like before, right? The only difference is the sound? I am not too familiar with this, but I think there are other members (not regular ones, though) who have done this kind of thing. As long as you don't edit the heck out of your recording - like speed it up, slow it down, correct wrong notes, etc..then I don't have a problem with it. Maybe you better wait until Chris chimes in, though.


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 Post subject: Re: RE: pianoteq and other software synths/VSTs
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:34 am 
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Sort of a sample of what I was able to record. I think the quality is better then my existing piano sound. This is not meant to replace my existing recording.

I think the volume settings might have been too low and maybee too much reverb. I noticed it was more responsive to my articulation which made me happy. What do you say?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:01 am 
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I don't care at all for these new technologies where one 'performance' can be made to sound like played on a Steinway, Bosendorfer, Barrel organ, or what else. I understand the results can be brilliant, and the possibilities exhilarating. Still I think this is not the way things should be going. But hey, I said that when the steam trains were first invented, and that didn't help either.

I guess this is a technology train we can't stop. To heck with acoustic pianos going out of tune. All you need is a midi keyboard and a sample librray of your choice. Hmmm....

Well anyway, we just have to trust that people still play the music themselves, which in this case we surely do. Having said that, even this aspect may well become a moot point in the future. When that happens, I'll probably resign as an admin....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:28 am 
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techneut wrote:
Well anyway, we just have to trust that people still play the music themselves, which in this case we surely do. Having said that, even this aspect may well become a moot point in the future. When that happens, I'll probably resign as an admin....


Currently, there are piano lover online communities that don't accept digital piano recordings. I wouldn't blame PS if it switched to this standard or accepted only videos of digital piano performances.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:42 am 
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alf wrote:
Currently, there are piano lover online communities that don't accept digital piano recordings. I wouldn't blame PS if it switched to this standard or accepted only videos of digital piano performances.

I don't think we can do that, however much we'd like it. Ever more people play digital, including yourself. Also, how do we know something is digital or not ? Often, you can't tell the difference and have to rely on the submitter's word. Seems impossible to draw a line...

A strange idea to allow only videos of digital performances. Pretty boring seeing someone play on a digital... And IMO we should leave videos to YouTube.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:52 am 
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techneut wrote:
alf wrote:
Currently, there are piano lover online communities that don't accept digital piano recordings. I wouldn't blame PS if it switched to this standard or accepted only videos of digital piano performances.

I don't think we can do that, however much we'd like it. Ever more people play digital, including yourself. Also, how do we know something is digital or not ? Often, you can't tell the difference and have to rely on the submitter's word. Seems impossible to draw a line...

A strange idea to allow only videos of digital performances. Pretty boring seeing someone play on a digital... And IMO we should leave videos to YouTube.


Well, all in all I agree with you, I guess I'm not good as devil's advocate.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:38 pm 
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alf wrote:
Well, all in all I agree with you, I guess I'm not good as devil's advocate.

I am relieved to hear there is something you are not good at :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:06 pm 
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techneut wrote:
alf wrote:
Well, all in all I agree with you, I guess I'm not good as devil's advocate.


I am relieved to hear there is something you are not good at :P


Hehe, I am prone to utter about what I know and fall silent upon the rest. So I suspect I give a skewed impression of myself.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:00 pm 
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alf wrote:
Hehe, I am prone to utter about what I know and fall silent upon the rest. So I suspect I give a skewed impression of myself.

:lol:
I prefer to phrase that slightly differently and sometimes say
"The reason I don't talk so much is because I talk only about things I know about"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:17 pm 
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techneut wrote:
alf wrote:
Hehe, I am prone to utter about what I know and fall silent upon the rest. So I suspect I give a skewed impression of myself.

:lol:
I prefer to phrase that slightly differently and sometimes say
"The reason I don't talk so much is because I talk only about things I know about"


Anyway, both are Wittgenstein revisited.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:21 pm 
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alf wrote:
Anyway, both are Wittgenstein revisited.

* Silence follows... *

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:31 pm 
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techneut wrote:
alf wrote:
Anyway, both are Wittgenstein revisited.

* Silence follows... *


:lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractatus_ ... losophicus (go to the "main theses")

Now you can speak (a little). :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Ok, I was thinking there might be a feeling like this. I actually would prefer to record on my baby grand piano if I would keep it in tune and had good recording equipment. My piano isn't really good for recording although it is much more sensitive to articulation and other subtle expressions which can sound funny on my digital.

I have to admit thought there seems a bit if irony here since I first heard of pianoteq via pianosociety!

techneut wrote:
I don't care at all for these new technologies where one 'performance' can be made to sound like played on a Steinway, Bosendorfer, Barrel organ, or what else. I understand the results can be brilliant, and the possibilities exhilarating. Still I think this is not the way things should be going. But hey, I said that when the steam trains were first invented, and that didn't help either.

I guess this is a technology train we can't stop. To heck with acoustic pianos going out of tune. All you need is a midi keyboard and a sample librray of your choice. Hmmm....

Well anyway, we just have to trust that people still play the music themselves, which in this case we surely do. Having said that, even this aspect may well become a moot point in the future. When that happens, I'll probably resign as an admin....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:41 pm 
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s_winitsky wrote:
I have to admit thought there seems a bit if irony here since I first heard of pianoteq via pianosociety!

AFAIK, we have the PianoTeq link because they have donated some money towards that. See it as advertisement, not as something that we necessarily like or even agree with :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:57 pm 
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techneut wrote:
s_winitsky wrote:
I have to admit thought there seems a bit if irony here since I first heard of pianoteq via pianosociety!

AFAIK, we have the PianoTeq link because they have donated some money towards that. See it as advertisement, not as something that we necessarily like or even agree with :wink:


Right. These guys for one, call attention to their class action on Google AdWords! :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Now you have really outsmarted me Alf. I have no clue what you mean and where the connection is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:24 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Now you have really outsmarted me Alf. I have no clue what you mean and where the connection is.


Really? Well, they pay Google to advertise a class action where Google itself is the defendant. Don't you find it ironic? I do! But business is business.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:29 pm 
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Sometimes too I wonder at the clean and precise sound of my electric piano ; but then I get to play on a good old heavy Steinway, and the feel of the ivories, the hugeness of the sound just dwarf the eletric piano for all its merits.

Regarding VST, I don't get whether you change the sound real time or post-play : when using VST in real time, I have quite an horrible latency (250-500 ms) which make it unplayable. And then unless you just want to make a cute recording, that makes VST useless to me ; one of the reason why I hate MIDI is because it seems that it NEVER exactly reproduces what you did. A simple electric piano with a line-in recording device, or an accoustic with nice recording equipement is much more faithful to the performance.
Also, changing the sound after you played is quite a huge edit to make I think ; the dynamics you used, some legato and rubato, it will vary greatly depending on the instrument you play. Even on my electric piano, varying reverberation will completly change my playing, as will changing the voice. For instance, I like to emphasize deeper bass lines, and I hate high and bright chime-like notes, so depending on the instrument voice I will not play the same. Those edits, I'd say, make your final result more akin to eletronic music than classical one.
In the end it merely depends on what you intend to share I guess ; a perfect studio-like performance, or your personnal performance (a question which is not unlike the ones on faithfulness to score and composer intention versus performer individuality and choices).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:49 pm 
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In the above case it was actually all real-time. I used pianoteq and the ASIO drivers which at least seemed to have no noticeable latency (admittedly my first time using pianoteq.) I admit you may get different results with different software and hardware configs.

Also you will see on the pianoteq website youtube videos of people using a similar config with no noticeable latency playing in real time. Not that I am trying to promote pianoteq!

I would say though there was no post editing in my recording above. Just a different piano sound then usual. I realize this is a bit of a touchy topic… Just an amateur piano player trying to get a nice recording :)



Teddy wrote:
Sometimes too I wonder at the clean and precise sound of my electric piano ; but then I get to play on a good old heavy Steinway, and the feel of the ivories, the hugeness of the sound just dwarf the eletric piano for all its merits.

Regarding VST, I don't get whether you change the sound real time or post-play : when using VST in real time, I have quite an horrible latency (250-500 ms) which make it unplayable. And then unless you just want to make a cute recording, that makes VST useless to me ; one of the reason why I hate MIDI is because it seems that it NEVER exactly reproduces what you did. A simple electric piano with a line-in recording device, or an accoustic with nice recording equipement is much more faithful to the performance.
Also, changing the sound after you played is quite a huge edit to make I think ; the dynamics you used, some legato and rubato, it will vary greatly depending on the instrument you play. Even on my electric piano, varying reverberation will completly change my playing, as will changing the voice. For instance, I like to emphasize deeper bass lines, and I hate high and bright chime-like notes, so depending on the instrument voice I will not play the same. Those edits, I'd say, make your final result more akin to eletronic music than classical one.
In the end it merely depends on what you intend to share I guess ; a perfect studio-like performance, or your personnal performance (a question which is not unlike the ones on faithfulness to score and composer intention versus performer individuality and choices).


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 Post subject: midi
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:21 am 
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I have also just been playing with this, and I can use it with FruityLoops on my desktop and that's pretty fun. Then I also have finale on my laptop. I'm trying to get the usb cable to read on my windows laptop 2000. The driver 2.3.1, I believe, is installed in my laptop. It says it's working properly, but the usb cable doesn't show up in the finale2005b midi input. If you could or anyone else could help, that'd be great!
Thanks

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