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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:38 pm 
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PJF wrote:
If Rubenstein used three different tempos, only he really knows why.

It can take a long time to undo the powerful bias one gets listening to recordings. I suggest listening to as many recordings as possible. There must be dozens of great recordings of Chopin's Mazurkas.

PF



Very well done. "only he really knows why" , this is because he was one of the best chopin interpreter at the time. My friend Richard-the one taught me tunning. He met him in 1955 ?when he visted adelaide gave a concert.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:17 pm 
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Location: Germany
John, hats off for the undertake to practise and record that difficult mazurka!

In my opinion the tempo is ok so, I would not play it faster. Don't care for Rubinsteins or others vivace, find your own.You also play the pp places perceptible softer than the loud ones.

However according to your great postings like 10/1 I know that you really can do better on this piece. Chris already told in his matchless manner about rhythm issues, especially in the middle part, but also in the end part and in small doses almost everywhere. That is no rubato, there is uneveness. Please take it positive, because technical wise you are able to play that piece calm and relaxed. Listen to your right hand accompaignment beside the melody, lots of notes were missing.
Practising with metronome makes perhaps only sense if you switch it on for every quarter note, not every bar. After that some kind of rubato may start. Maybe you can manage to long for the more sophisticated expression things like the written accents in the score.

Keep on with that piece!


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Yet, there is so much to be learnt by listening to the masters. My teacher insists one should not go and play any piece without listening to at least 3 different master interpretations, comparing them, and making up your mind what you want yours to sound like. I see the point of it, and yet I am not sure I agree with it.


Your teacher is right, I think. There is so much one can learn by listening to true masters of the art, regardless on piano or on organ. The only danger in my case is, that I often (if not always) try to speed up to soon in order to reach the speed I have from certain recordings in the ear. That is really a big problem for me, maybe for others too. But no doubt, everyone here can benefit through listening what the best of the best have to tell in their sidereal recording hours!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:43 pm 
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Quote:
Your teacher is right, I think. There is so much one can learn by listening to true masters of the art, regardless on piano or on organ. The only danger in my case is, that I often (if not always) try to speed up to soon in order to reach the speed I have from certain recordings in the ear. That is really a big problem for me, maybe for others too. But no doubt, everyone here can benefit through listening what the best of the best have to tell in their sidereal recording hours!

Sidereal :?:

Yes very true. But I think it is quite dangerous to form a preconception of a piece before you even start to play it. More often than not this leads to emulation and combinations of different styles and tricks of the trade. It also can lead to an unsure and impersonal style. I find it much better to form one's own fresh opinion first, and only when you have your own conviction, slowly take in what others have to say about it. Of course then there's the risk that you realize you've done it all wrong... but it is from doing things wrong that one actually learns the most.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:45 am 
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Sidereal :?:

Yes very true. But I think it is quite dangerous to form a preconception of a piece before you even start to play it. More often than not this leads to emulation and combinations of different styles and tricks of the trade. It also can lead to an unsure and impersonal style. I find it much better to form one's own fresh opinion first, and only when you have your own conviction, slowly take in what others have to say about it. Of course then there's the risk that you realize you've done it all wrong... but it is from doing things wrong that one actually learns the most.


I tried to translate the German "Sternstunde" into english "Sidereal". That means, what is captured on CD from artists at the peak of their capability.

There is nothing wrong to emulate and combine different styles and tricks in my opinion. Beg, borrow and steal from whose who have something to say, that is what helps for us amateurs. I don't think one should criticless long for a take over of a certain interpretation. But I don't believe that any of us could reinvent the wheel in a better way than what the best of the world have already invented. So careful listening to as much different master interpretations as possible that is what broadens the horizon and eventually leads to a more convincing own interpretation.

Maybe it is a good idea to FIRST build a fresh own opinion and trying to incorporate something from the masters as SECOND step. The danger is however that muscle memory has already established this way. To reprogram the muscle memory is always a hard way - well, it can be that one learns the most from doing things wrong first. But if their is any chance to do the things right from the beginning, this seems to be more effective.

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