Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:31 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Revolutionary Etude - stamina question
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
Hello. I'm new to these forums, as you can probably tell.

I've been working on the revolutionary etude for about six months now (I graduated college, and since, I haven't had a teacher to help me along), and I can play through it at speed, but not at once.

Around measure 33 (right hand is on a G#7 chord), I start getting cramps in my forearm, and I can't focus until around measure 45 or so. This is fine, until I get further into it with the polyrhythms on the main theme and my forearm just says, "no!"

As I said, I can play through each section individually, but keeping up with it, my arm just gives way.

Any tips would be wonderful. Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 39
I used to have the same problem. I gave up practicing this étude and moved onto some other pieces. After less than a year I was able to play the étude without getting any cramps. I suggest you practice some other pieces other than the Revolutionary Étude to increase your stamina, and after a few months you'll notice that you'll have no trouble playing it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
That could possibly help it I suppose... Any pieces you'd recommend? I studied the Pathetique Sonata which requires a lot of stamina from the left arm in the first movement, and slightly less in the third, but as far as left-arm pieces, that's about the extent that I've gone.

Readily available to me are all the Beethoven sonatas, all of Chopin's music, all of Brahms' piano music, the Debussy Preludes, WTC1&2, and the Liszt etudes. The rest of my own stuff I need to go digging for, and I could always purchase or call my old piano teacher to get it.

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:27 pm
Posts: 194
Hi mixah, since you asked for "any" tips, I can offer you something I heard once a long time ago.
The first time I ever heard this etude was when I was hanging out with a friend who had a friend in
music school that was studying that piece. We listened to an audio tape recording of the guy
practicing it and I remember the guy saying on the tape that there were some places in which the
right hand could take over for the left so that it could rest for a second. Maybe you could watch
a video of it being played to see if this is true or not. Dang, I just checked on youtube. Last week
there were some videos of Yefim Bronfman playing it as an encore after the 3rd Rach concerto
but now they are gone.

I own that video but I don't know how to make copies of DVDs. If you are interested in purchasing it I can get you in touch with the right people.

_________________
"I am glad that you wish to study the art of tones from its roots up, and it depends only on you to learn for yourself so much of it as has become known to me." -- J.S. Bach


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
I'll look into it. I'll le tyou know another time though if I want the DVD.

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:34 am
Posts: 83
Location: Philadelphia, Pa, USA
I played this etude when I was 8th grade. I'm sure my performance of it was a little on the slow side and immature etc etc, but my point in bringing it up is to opine that the left hand part doesn't really require great stamina. Without knowing anything about how you play it, I'd guess that when you try to play it at a fast tempo, you are somehow tensing up. I'm willing to bet that you can play through the entire left-hand part at half tempo without much struggle. If that's the case, try to let your slow-moving left hand teach your fast-moving left hand. Play through at a slow speed being REALLY perceptive of every motion that your left hand goes through. Then try again at speed and try to perceive every change that is caused by the speed. There are going to be some slightly different movements caused by the speed, but I bet you'll also feel changes that cause extra tension in some of your hand muscles.

Excuse me if you already know and practice this way, but I'll share the details of the best way I've found to work such kinks out. Pick a metronome tempo that you can easily play a section of the LH part to. When things are really steady after a few minutes, kick it up a notch until you have just the slightest bit of trouble keeping up. Practice at that speed for a few minutes until it starts to be easy, and then kick it up a notch again. At each increase, make sure you are keeping your hand/hands as relaxed as possible, while still fully sounding every note. I usually observe that right when I increase the speed, I'm tense, but then I accommodate, and sometimes even space out for a minute or so, and when I focus again, I realize that my hand is much more relaxed and easily keeping up. If you ever increase the metronome speed and find after 5-10 minutes that you haven't learned to relax and play it at the new speed, back it down a notch and try more at that slower speed. Eventually each day you'll reach a limit past which you can't get faster, but if you do this regularly, that limit will increase until you can play the left hand of the Revolutionary at the speed you desire without excess tension, thus saving your forearm muscles.

There are some places where you could cheat and play a bit with the right hand as well, but IMO that doesn't solve the problem, as there are some extended parts in the middle where you can't cheat like that, and besides, Chopin clearly designed this etude to be a study in left-hand speed and efficiency:)

Hope this helps:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:00 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9598
Location: Netherlands
Hah... playing the Revolutionary on piano is peanuts.
Watch this young whippersnapper playing it on organ, his feet doing the LH part :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQxyQktNFwc

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
Mark wrote:
I played this etude when I was 8th grade. I'm sure my performance of it was a little on the slow side and immature etc etc, but my point in bringing it up is to opine that the left hand part doesn't really require great stamina. Without knowing anything about how you play it, I'd guess that when you try to play it at a fast tempo, you are somehow tensing up. I'm willing to bet that you can play through the entire left-hand part at half tempo without much struggle. If that's the case, try to let your slow-moving left hand teach your fast-moving left hand. Play through at a slow speed being REALLY perceptive of every motion that your left hand goes through. Then try again at speed and try to perceive every change that is caused by the speed. There are going to be some slightly different movements caused by the speed, but I bet you'll also feel changes that cause extra tension in some of your hand muscles.

Excuse me if you already know and practice this way, but I'll share the details of the best way I've found to work such kinks out. Pick a metronome tempo that you can easily play a section of the LH part to. When things are really steady after a few minutes, kick it up a notch until you have just the slightest bit of trouble keeping up. Practice at that speed for a few minutes until it starts to be easy, and then kick it up a notch again. At each increase, make sure you are keeping your hand/hands as relaxed as possible, while still fully sounding every note. I usually observe that right when I increase the speed, I'm tense, but then I accommodate, and sometimes even space out for a minute or so, and when I focus again, I realize that my hand is much more relaxed and easily keeping up. If you ever increase the metronome speed and find after 5-10 minutes that you haven't learned to relax and play it at the new speed, back it down a notch and try more at that slower speed. Eventually each day you'll reach a limit past which you can't get faster, but if you do this regularly, that limit will increase until you can play the left hand of the Revolutionary at the speed you desire without excess tension, thus saving your forearm muscles.

There are some places where you could cheat and play a bit with the right hand as well, but IMO that doesn't solve the problem, as there are some extended parts in the middle where you can't cheat like that, and besides, Chopin clearly designed this etude to be a study in left-hand speed and efficiency:)

Hope this helps:)


Exactly, playing it with the right hand is cheating (the same way my teacher told me I can do stuff with the left hand to replace the right in some passages of the Pathetique by Beethoven. I never did any of these things.

You're right though. I tense up a lot with the D, Bb, Cb, Bb section that begins with the Bb sus chord in the right hand. I can't help but. I do practice the piece at 110bpm or so, which is obviously slower than where it should be. I'm not trying to get to the Richter speed (which, I think, is about 160-180) but I'd like to get to about 140 and play it clean. I'll add rubato in after I can play it exactly as written.

I think you hit it on the head though. You just confirmed what my subconscious mind keeps fighting against doing.

Now, when you performed this in 8th grade, how many years were you playing? i wish I had started at a much younger age, but I didn't qualify for piano lessons through my Catholic school growing up, because they told me my hands were too small for my age (I didn't actually grow much until 9th grade, where I sprout up a foot in a year). Stupid school.... I have a five year old student now that I'm going over Bach's invention in Dm as individual hand exercises, and he'll be performing Mozart's Fantasy in d minor in the spring. The major part needs a lot of work... haha!

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:34 am
Posts: 83
Location: Philadelphia, Pa, USA
When I played it as an 8th-grader, I'd been playing for about 4 years, so it looks like I had about the same amount of experience as you do now. That's too bad about you having the desire, but not being allowed to learn piano earlier. Silly teachers.

I had a growth spurt like that too. From 5'6" spring of 8th grad to 6'1" fall of 9th:)

What are you a graduate student in? Apparently not piano.

Quote:
Hah... playing the Revolutionary on piano is peanuts.
Watch this young whippersnapper playing it on organ, his feet doing the LH part :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQxyQktNFwc

I came across this video a couple weeks ago. LOL, he's crazy. While I'm prejudiced towards piano versions of essentially everything, I must admit that that performance is impressive.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
Cool. It wasn't my teacher... It was the principal. She wouldn't let me do anything because I wasn't a confirmed Catholic. I didn't get into piano until college.

I'm going to grad school for Instructional Technology with a minor in Sound Design for the classroom and theater. I found out that I can squeeze in piano lessons though with my undergraduate teacher at no extra cost to me, so I'm looking forward to having a teacher again.

Until now though, I had no desire to really focus on classical, until I heard more of Chopin's work and read a few books about his life.. Same with Beethoven, and that happened last summer... Last summer, the most difficult piece I was able to play was the first movement of the Pathetique, and I struggled with it. I'm glad I'm not there anymore. I studied mostly 20th century weird stuff and rock music.... Oh do I regret that :(

Thanks for the tips though. Much appreciated.

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
OK, new question, same piece. (including pictures rather than just measures numbers alone)

I'm touching a few things up before I start taking lessons again (which are starting in January with the same teacher)

(A)
after the first reiteration of the main theme (around measure 27 or 28) the measure begins with a Bb minor chord, and the left hand moves to Db and has a small chromatic progression down before the G# chord in the next measure.

Now, fingering. My score (the Mikuli edition) tells me 123 4123 4123 4123 for each of the segments of 16th notes. I find that Db, C, Cb, Bb is very awkward fingering for this. Is there a reason for this fingering, other than it's what Mikuli decided to write? Are there better fingerings? I've been using 212 3123 4123 4234

The problem with this is that when I play it up to speed, I lose track of where I am, whereas I don't with the original fingering. with the original fingering, however, the first Bb and a the A natural with the third sound like crap.
Image


(B)
Next is the transition into the measure before the segment that begins in F minor.
My score tells me to go from 1 on the C, 4 on the B, and then 3 again on the C... there HAS to be a better fingering for this... Just has to be...

Image

(C)
in the 2 against 3 part, how important is it that the Eb (and other such times) is played slightly after the left hand's note, or can I play them together and generally be fine? Playing it as a true 2 against 3 is really screwing with me because of the tempo, and I find that the recordings that I listen to, it's almost indistinguishable. (Richter, Watts, and Horowitz's recordings)... Although, that could be my ear as well, untrained to hear it properly.

Image

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
no tips?

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mixah, if you found sore arms or cramps, it just simply saying that the way you approach the piano--"touch" is too hard and so as your mental relaxzation. YOU need to relax more inconjuction with your touch, and therefore the speed WILL BE increased at no tension at all-no cramps.....I think, that todays cramp is due to your previous build up from a wrong approach-10 years??? Once you know the physics of momentum -weight vs touch....you will start to understand what I am trying to say. I wish I can give you a tip in real life. I am located in australia.

You need to change your approach...or you will never do it...all tones should sound airly and lightening fast..........

Cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
WEll, I've been playing for five years, and I've neglected a lot of things with left hand (eg. scales and arpeggios...) to be perfectly clear, I can play the ocean etude completely with my right hand up to speed... if I put my left hand only, I put the metronome on 45, and it's still too fast... Working on this has really helped my left hand, but I now only occassionally get cramped up. I can work through until the fifth page (last page) now without getting cramps... I'm mostly concerned about bad fingering though, because my wrist has to do some funky things. Those finger problems are mostly addressed in the previous post that I made with pictures of the score.

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
Ok Mixah or AJ, you have played for 5 years...ONLY. i dnt want to discourage you or not. You will make it eventually (1 year time)but with your approach it seemed you are more focus on muscle power than the mementum, thereofre the tone is HARSH and tiring....

To get the right approach, you sholud find a good piano teacher from the conservatory and ask them for PURE weight method and touch. To play these etudes up to speed with full relaxzation(like myself--sorry not to praise myself or not.) I do 4 to 5 laps without any sign or cramps or excessive tension on forearm in full speed. ; anotherwords, its a piece of cake-in a simple explanation. Your mental state will mature with your correct approach to piano touch and it will acheive in no time. I played more than 35 years....the these etudes just came to later stage of my life. 3 months to memeorize....6 months to play well and 1-10 years to MASTER. I only do 3- 10 hours a week-part timer.

You really have to think, how to approach the piano rather than WHAT YOU WANTED TO PLAY first.

Cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
Good post. I want to say thanks first though, because most of the piano forums that I've been on, people have greeted me with stupidity, such as: "OMG You played for four years and you're only working on Beethoven's Pathetique? I was playing Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody blah blah blah"

I appreciate the maturity.

As far as the level at which you were playing, I don't necessarily agree entirely with that. My teacher performed the Ocean etude his freshman year, the Tristesse and the Revolutionary his sophomore year, some Liszt etudes for his third year, and a few Scriabin etudes his fourth, at the Peabody Conservatory of John Hopkin's University, studying under Leon Fleischer.

In his graduate work, for his masters, he played Chopin Op.10 and 28 for the first year, and a bunch of Spanish work after that (Villa Lobos, and others), and for his Doctorate, Beethoven's Fourth and Fifth Piano Concertos. He started playing piano when he was 13 years old, five years before he began playing at the university level. Five years is, I think, a long time where one can easily begin to start working on difficult pieces, even if they don't perform them up to par, simply because it will enhance your technique earlier in the stages of learning. I'm open to argument, as you have far more experience than me, but I'm a bit closer to my teacher and his philosophies than somebody I've communicated to through a web forum.

Actually, now that I think of it, if you happened to see a piano performance in the Spring of 2007 (or was it the summer...) at the Sydney Opera House, by a Dr. Robert Miller, that's my teacher. He performed a solo tour of Australia last year.

Anyway, I've been working on this etude now since around July. I do have a lot to do mentally to prepare, but my teacher insists that he wants me to perform it in April. I need to work on it with complete devotion. This isn't something that "I wanted to play". If you ask what I want to play, then the answer would be Beethoven's Tempest, Scriabin's Vers la Flamme, and Chopin's Op.10 n.4. The Tempest, I can slowly work my way through, but I haven't given it much time, Vers La Flamme, I need to put in some years of study before I'm able to play it, and the Op.10 n.4 is one of the most difficult pieces I've ever attempted, so once again, I need to mature a bit before I can begin work on that monster.

I've already performed the Tristesse (Op. 10 n.3, for whatever reason, not many people call it by that name), and a few others.

Just to give you an idea of what I've done so far, which may or may not help in understanding where I lay in terms of performance ability...

My senior recital in May -

Mozart K.488, Piano Concerto n.23 in A
JS Bach WTC1, Prelude and Fugue in D minor and D major
Beethoven - Op. 13, Sonata in C minor
Brahams Op. 79, Rhapsodies in B and G minor
Claude Debussy - Preludes La fille aux cheveux de lin, la cathedral engloutie, and voiles
Khachaturian - Toccata

Other works that I've performed as a student:
Mozart K.397 - first recital ever, 6 months into playing
Bach 2 part inventions in d minor and a minor
Chopin Prelude in B minor, Prelude in e minor, prelude in F# Major, and Etude in E Major Op.10 n.3
Beethoven - Moonlight sonata Mvts 1 and 2, Fur Elise
CPE Bach - Solfeggietto
and there's a few smaller pieces that I've done with a local jazz group for university credit...

Since I started playing, I've put anywhere from 4-10 hours per day into playing... I'm completely devoted to it, and it's all I can think about, honestly.

It's kind of elitist to say, but I need to play piano. Whether for an audience or not, I just need to play...

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
good point and good work. You are in sydney too, I am. but I would actually like to SEE you play and I would like to hear the TONE you produced. because, I dnt want give you an empty talk untill I can hear the tone. You teacher should know what weight technique is or he/she may use the "muscle " approach rather than weight approach. Just the Weight approach is SMARTER and proce a better tonality.

Working 4 hours a day is VERY GOOD. I liked it. This is the best way to maintain the"lightening" fast touch..since all fingers and joints are so loose and easily to coordinate.

ANY one does the university course, had at least Grade 7, or 8 level for their audition before to be considered or accepted as an music students unless one is exceptinally prodigy.

To reach that level(performance/concert), you need to play at least 5-10 yeras at younger age. I know Rector(russian pianist -passed away), he did not start his concert life until age of 45. But again, he is one of the kind. There is a fine line between a musician and technician. A good muscial feeling played from ones heart is more important than just able to play it up to speed.

Cheeers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
and here's what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=424ZAux_Z40

(Apologies for bad sound quality - can't afford a camcorder)

_________________
Good morning, my name's AJ. I've been playing piano since January of 2004, as a sophomore in college, and I changed my major to music. It's all I love now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:04 pm
Posts: 725
Location: Louisiana, USA
techneut wrote:
Hah... playing the Revolutionary on piano is peanuts.
Watch this young whippersnapper playing it on organ, his feet doing the LH part :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQxyQktNFwc


Oh, that is just sick!

and mean too, Chris :P I mean not at all discouraging to someone trying to learn this piece! :lol:

_________________
the one, the only ... Nathan Coleman
"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
perhaps, you guys wants to see this master doing a disco on revolutionary studies...

http://www.8notes.com/show_video.asp?video_id=297902

Enjoy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:06 am
Posts: 65
Location: Israel/USA
mixah wrote:
OK, new question, same piece. (including pictures rather than just measures numbers alone)

I'm touching a few things up before I start taking lessons again (which are starting in January with the same teacher)

(A)
after the first reiteration of the main theme (around measure 27 or 28) the measure begins with a Bb minor chord, and the left hand moves to Db and has a small chromatic progression down before the G# chord in the next measure.

Now, fingering. My score (the Mikuli edition) tells me 123 4123 4123 4123 for each of the segments of 16th notes. I find that Db, C, Cb, Bb is very awkward fingering for this. Is there a reason for this fingering, other than it's what Mikuli decided to write? Are there better fingerings? I've been using 212 3123 4123 4234

The problem with this is that when I play it up to speed, I lose track of where I am, whereas I don't with the original fingering. with the original fingering, however, the first Bb and a the A natural with the third sound like crap.
Image


(B)
Next is the transition into the measure before the segment that begins in F minor.
My score tells me to go from 1 on the C, 4 on the B, and then 3 again on the C... there HAS to be a better fingering for this... Just has to be...

Image


Hi, this is my first post here (I think...). You might like to check me out on Piano Society as a pianist and a composer.

Fingering Q A: Yes, your fingering is better than Mikuli's. Let me suggest another little change on your fingering. Take the last 2 notes of the measure (a & g#) with 1 & 2.

Fingering Q B: Yes, there is a better fingering. After c (last in the bar) with the thumb, take 3 on b (first in the next bar), 1 on c, 2 on db, 1 on c.

Hope this helps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last available slot in my Oct 25-31 piano camp for adults in Utica, NY.
All piano playing levels accepted.
http://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/

_________________
Best wishes,
Rami
http://pianofingering.tripod.com/
http://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/barniv
http://www.listen.to/rami


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:06 am
Posts: 65
Location: Israel/USA
Rami Bar-Niv wrote:
mixah wrote:
(A)
after the first reiteration of the main theme (around measure 27 or 28) the measure begins with a Bb minor chord, and the left hand moves to Db and has a small chromatic progression down before the G# chord in the next measure.

Now, fingering. My score (the Mikuli edition) tells me 123 4123 4123 4123 for each of the segments of 16th notes. I find that Db, C, Cb, Bb is very awkward fingering for this. Is there a reason for this fingering, other than it's what Mikuli decided to write? Are there better fingerings? I've been using 212 3123 4123 4234

The problem with this is that when I play it up to speed, I lose track of where I am, whereas I don't with the original fingering. with the original fingering, however, the first Bb and a the A natural with the third sound like crap.
Image



Fingering Q A: Yes, your fingering is better than Mikuli's. Let me suggest another little change on your fingering. Take the last 2 notes of the measure (a & g#) with 1 & 2.


Re fingering Q A: One more thing, actually a better suggestion than my previous one for the last 3 notes is 2, 3, 1, which is actually also written in your Mikuli music.

===============================================
One last available slot in my Oct 25-31 piano camp for adults in Utica, NY.
All piano playing levels accepted.

_________________
Best wishes,
Rami
http://pianofingering.tripod.com/
http://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/barniv
http://www.listen.to/rami


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
i use the same figering on your scroe provided, but rather the lower printed version, starting with 4th finger on each semisemi quaver notes...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:06 am
Posts: 65
Location: Israel/USA
johnmar78 wrote:
i use the same figering on your scroe provided, but rather the lower printed version, starting with 4th finger on each semisemi quaver notes...


That's exactly where "mixah" had a problem and started this question...

_________________
Best wishes,
Rami
http://pianofingering.tripod.com/
http://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/barniv
http://www.listen.to/rami


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
well, i am ready for recoding this etude on video, and I have to say, I used the fingering recommended on the score, and its working for me. I am sorry that finger pattern does not suit into your playing styles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:06 am
Posts: 65
Location: Israel/USA
johnmar78 wrote:
well, i am ready for recoding this etude on video, and I have to say, I used the fingering recommended on the score, and its working for me. I am sorry that finger pattern does not suit into your playing styles.


Glad the fingering in the score is working for you, but it didn't for "mixah" and doesn't for me. As a matter of fact, I never bother to look at fingering in scores, as I do my own.
I don't understand why you should be sorry that the fingering suggested in the score does not suit me, I am very happy with my own fingering and so are my students and my colleagues who come for advice.
I also hope you realize that different scores/editions of the same piece will give you different fingering.
As a matter of fact I am writing a book about advanced and virtuosic fingering.
Good luck with your recording, hope we can hear it on YouTube soon.

_________________
Best wishes,
Rami
http://pianofingering.tripod.com/
http://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/barniv
http://www.listen.to/rami


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group