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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Paul wrote:
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PJF wrote:

..try playing just the top three notes of the LH chord (A#, E, F#). This is easy, no? Then, while holding these notes (using them as a pivot point) try to pivot your hand to the left while extending your pinkie (so that the bones of the finger are parallel to their corresponding bones in the hand), to reach the low 'F#'. Reaching the low F# while holding the little note-cluster at the top, is the technical problem to solve, not trying to reach that 'E'. .


Pete

At the risk of boring the rest of the forum to death I'll persist with this...

I tried what you say above but with the help of a tape measure I find that the simple truth is that the distance between keys F# and E is 14cm. The distance between fully extended pinkies no.2 & 5 is 13cm. There is NO WAY I can achieve that stretch without E flat playing along as well! As you say, the technical problem is the lower F#. No problem with the A#.

Not to worry, I'll just play my version as before.


I don't get bored with this line of conversation! (I'm a teacher rehabilitating an injury that occurred months ago, so my patience is unnatural.)

Have you tried rotating your left forearm counterclockwise to about 45 degrees and playing the low F# on the pinkie's left edge? There's a bit of gymnastics involved but if one can orient the hand and arm and fingers in such a way...so that you play on the left edge of 2 and 5...the chord is likely reachable. Try experimenting with some unorthodox ways of extending your pinkie and index finger (namely, with a greatly supinated hand.)

Luckily, the reach between 2 and 5 can be increased due to the fact that the hand is stretchable (even if you're old!) but don't go injuring yourself like me. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:30 pm 
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At the risk of continuing the humorous replies to a serious question, let me ask if anyone has seen this approach to playing Rachmaninoff. It beats trying to stretch one's hands (or grow new fingers).

Ed

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:07 pm 
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I knew what this was going to be before I even clicked on the link. Yes - that one is so funny!

Paul - we have a new fingering technique for you to try. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:38 am 
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:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Quote:
Pianolady wrote:
Paul - we have a new fingering technique for you to try. :lol:


...and it's only slightly more crazy than my idea of removing the E flat key during the Chopin!

Due to ongoing renovation in the music room my piano is currently unusable so I haven't been practicing finger torture lately. Soon back to it though.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:44 am 
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These types of chords are not impossible to play, you just have to have large hands or maybe roll the chord... I'm not familiar with this exact passage, but I can guarantee you my teacher could play it and w/out rolling it. With each hand he can reach a five note chord stretching over the span of a 12th 0_0

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Hi Paul,

Let me assure you that the LH chord is not impossible for everyone. It's basically an octave containing two other notes. The fingering (which is very comfortable for me at least) is 5-F#, 3-C#, 2-E, and 1-F#. I realize that everyone's hand has a different span, and what is comfortable for one pianist might not be workable for another. If absolutely necessary, you could use the option of rolling the LH chord upward as an arpeggio. Or, if that cannot be managed well, you could simplify the chord by eliminating the top F# fingering the LH 5-F#, 2-C# and 1-E. That would at least substantially preserve the tonal colors of the chord. I hope this helps.

David

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:51 pm 
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On his "Chopin I Love" CD, Jean-Yves Thibaudet played a few of the pieces on
Chopin's actual piano. There used to be an interview with JYT on youtube in which
he talks about that piano and how it was much smaller than normal pianos. JYT said his
fingers would barely fit between the black keys and he had to learn all over again how to play
in order to record those pieces. So, some of those "impossible" fingerings were not
so impossible back in the day.

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Last edited by bclever on Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Oh, Brian - that is the most interesting thing I've heard today! I have wondered about this countless times while I'm playing Chopin. From what we can read, Chopin's fingers were so flexible and like rubber, but there are times when I can not picture him actually reaching certain wide stretches. And I think he was about the same size as I am, maybe he's a little taller, but his hands wouldn't have been that large, so yes - this does answer that question.

My other question which I still have not found an answer to, is what exactly is the length of Chopin's fingers? I know there is a cast of his hands in a museum, so I guess I'll have to go there and measure it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Apropos to this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhKinvIU ... re=related

If you are impatient fast forward to 6:00 exactly.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:19 am 
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Wow! Thanks for that youtube link, Brian. Oh how I love that man even more, now. And how weird is this, huh? Look at Chopin's hand! I've seen pictures of the cast before, but this one looks very real. How slim and long his fingers were. No wonder...! I'll watch the other parts another time. Great videos!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:13 pm 
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I just finished watching the rest of the videos. There are six altogether. Anyone who is a Chopin nut should watch them. There is nothing that I did not already know in them, but Schiff describes things very nicely and you get to see places where Chopin lived and performed. Another plus is watching Schiff play several pieces. Does anyone know how to save a youtube video? I wouldn't mind saving these videos onto my computer but I don't know how.

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:06 pm 
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Yes I watched them too and enjoyed them very much. I have converted
youtube stuff to mp3's before using http://vidtomp3.com/ but for some reason it didn't work on this time?

If someone gets it to work I would like to know as well.

You know I sometimes wonder what it would have been like to hear Chopin play the WTC on his piano. When I listen to Chopin, although I am no Chopin expert, I hear a strange mix between Bach, folk music and virtuoso piano playing.

pianolady wrote:
I just finished watching the rest of the videos. There are six altogether. Anyone who is a Chopin nut should watch them. There is nothing that I did not already know in them, but Schiff describes things very nicely and you get to see places where Chopin lived and performed. Another plus is watching Schiff play several pieces. Does anyone know how to save a youtube video? I wouldn't mind saving these videos onto my computer but I don't know how.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:37 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
I wouldn't mind saving these videos onto my computer but I don't know how.


If I remember well you browse with Firefox, so this could make your day:
https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/3590

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:08 pm 
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alf wrote:
pianolady wrote:
I wouldn't mind saving these videos onto my computer but I don't know how.


If I remember well you browse with Firefox, so this could make your day:
https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/3590


Thanks, darlin'. That's exactly what I wanted! :D

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano


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