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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:19 am 
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No it is perhaps not realistic depending what we refer to as a really good grand. You need to be very lucky to find one at all into such a budget. So probably not possible in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:46 am 
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Location: Germany
I agree with Robert, you will for you budget get probably an old good grand, but not restaured.
I played in a shop on a 100 year old Steinway Model B (some say, The holy grail), what was completely restaured. Restauration costs: about 10.000 Euro acoustical restauration (new strings, new Renner action, soundboard restauration, new pins), and further 10.000 Euro optical restauration !!!
If you have small budget, I would postpone any restauration.

Only for me I have decided not to do any optical restauration - old pianos have shellac, what is unbelievable expensive to restaure. In my opinion one can and should see that the piano is something one works on. I am proud on the traces of usage. Why not show the signs of some 1000 and more hours of practising?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:21 pm 
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Sleeping under the grand? :D That's a new idea. I have tried the clavanova digital grand, and while the touch was very nice, I didn't quite like the sound as much as a real piano. It sounds good at first listen, but after you listen to it a while, you wish they would have used a larger sample library. I think you can be quite happy if you find a good upright. There is this one upright I play on that sounds better than some old grands.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:07 am 
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Joe (and others too of course),

I was at a Yamaha shop yesterday and played the CLP-150, CLP-280, the CLP-175 and the GT2 and must change my stand-point a bit in this issue. Both the CLP-280 and CLP-175 sounds really good and the feel is genuine. The last time I played the CLP-175, it was stuck into a corner and there were a lot noice in the store so I think my view was distorted because of this. 280/175 have wooden keys (I would avoid the plastic which feels a bit heavy at the bottom of each stroke and some things gets problematic as fast repeats on same key etc.) where the CLP-280 is an upright and CLP-175 the grand. Also, they sounds a lot better than the cheaper CLP-150 which probably has to do with the iAFC system and the larger loudspeakers but perhaps also the samplings have been upgraded? But the GT2 has the best touch of them all. Incredible feel and not very strange as they have taken out the keys, hammers, etc. from their largest grand. It is just a pity that they do not replace the sound of it. According to my view, it must be upgraded.

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 Post subject: Which would you buy?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:21 am 
Hello Robert,

I read your posting about the various Yamaha products on which you played at the local piano / keyboard vendor's facility. I agree with you that the touch of the wooden keyboard Clavinovas in the high end of the Yamaha line is very good, but that the sound does leave something to be desired.

* * * * * *

Let's pose a hypothetical question to you regarding the purchase of a NEW instrument: Given you had no more than 6000 or 7000 euros to spend, and you had the choice of a Yamaha electronic piano (CLP-175 or GT2) that was on sale for no more than 6000 or 7000 euros, versus a new upright of your choice (again no more than 7000 euros on sale) -- knowing that this was going to be the instrument in your home and that you would be living with it as a practice instrument for several years ...

... would you go electronic or buy a new 7000 euro upright -- and no cheating, by wishing for a 15000 euro Steinway or Bechstein upright somehow miraculously on sale for 7000?

Joe

(Hint: For my money, I would go for the instrument with the better touch, because the "sound" of a new 7000 euro upright does not surpass the electronic Yamaha in the way that the latter's touch surpasses the touch of every new upright of comparable price.)


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 Post subject: Re: Purchasing a New Piano-HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:07 am 
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Macadeus wrote:
I am hard pressed in deciding which brand and type of piano I should purchase. I'm caught between a trap that says: buy the upright for space and sacrifice the sound, or sacrifice the space and have the sound produced by a baby or "adult" grand. The dimensions for my room are 12 by 14, and we are willing to pay $7,000, possibly more once we get money from FEMA. I had my eye on a terrific sounding German brand-upright. I know, that doesn't help much, but I know for sure it wasn't Bozendorffer; it had a weird name and was written in such fine script, it was illegible. I believe it had a Renner action and was only for $5,500. But being the person I am, I would rather prefer to have a grand, but within the $7,000 price range-seems impossible :(
Help me.



Are we neighbors? I had to run from Katrina and Rita just two weeks later.

Have you considered using $7,000 as a down payment and financing the rest? That's what I did, although interest rates are a bit higher than 6 years ago.

I purchased a three year old, 5' 10" Kawai RX2 from UNL (Monroe) for just $10,500 (in 2000). It was in a faculty member's office, not a practice room, so I know it wasn't mistreated, as the practice room pianos often are. Perhaps you will find what you need at one of the several 'university piano sales' around Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Alexandria and Monroe Louisiana.

Pete


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 Post subject: Louisiana Purchased Piano
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:44 am 
If you consider purchasing a good grand piano from any recent Louisiana university sale, I would be very careful to check for rust around the strings and tuning pins, and look for ripples in the soundboard -- evidence of, shall we say, "excess moisture." Remove the fallboard, and look for evidence of mud or moisture in and amongst the keys where a lay person would forget to clean; look for warped keys; try the trapwork (pedals), looking for sticking dampers upon pressing and releasing the rightmost pedal.

Just as Katrina's aftermath left 600,000 automobiles as being totaled by the insurance carriers, yet only 300,000 moisture destroyed automobiles found in junk yards -- I would be extremely cautious of unscrupulous vendors trying to sell pianos that suffered hurricane damage.

Joe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:03 am 
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That's good advice. My own piano was spared humidity damage in the week we were without power because I took the legs off, wrapped it tightly in several layers of plastic sheeting and sealed it with clear packaging tape. I'm sure plenty of people in the areas that were without power, did not take such measures to protect their instruments from humidity. Flood damage will be obvious, humidity or heat damage will be less noticeable. I would keep an eye out for mildew or severe out-of-tunedness. High heat or humidity can damage a piano in a way that is not immediately evident. This damage will not show for months to years, in the form of weakened action components and unstable temperament. For example, after Hurricane Lili in 2002, my piano was subjected to 100F degree (39C) temperature for a couple of days. I had to tune it five times a year for the next two years, before the tuning became stable. I certainly wouldn't want a piano that had been exposed to the summer heat for weeks on end.


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 Post subject: Re: Which would you buy?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:41 pm 
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jcfeli wrote:
Let's pose a hypothetical question to you regarding the purchase of a NEW instrument: Given you had no more than 6000 or 7000 euros to spend, and you had the choice of a Yamaha electronic piano (CLP-175 or GT2) that was on sale for no more than 6000 or 7000 euros, versus a new upright of your choice (again no more than 7000 euros on sale) -- knowing that this was going to be the instrument in your home and that you would be living with it as a practice instrument for several years ...

This is today an extremely tricky question. The digital grands comes with a lot advantages but I would take my time and not go on the first, second or even third impression. I would visit each shops at least 10 times and bring my scores and make my practise in there (probably painful for the shop owners ;)). That is how I would do it. Unfortunately, I cannot answer your questions without making this test but it would not be an obvious choice.

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