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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:43 am 
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Demonic Advent.

A s I once said to a teenage relative of mine:" Why should I worry about my dying? It's not going to happen in my lifetime! " Assuming there is no afterlife (an unsubstantiated assumptlon, by the way) your death is nothing that will happen to you; your death is something which will be an event to others!

Raymond


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:50 am 
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I suppose so... but the nothingness that may follow is just a frightening prospect to me.

Also... whilst having no afterlife may be unsubstanstiated, I would think that there being an afterlife is also an unsubstanstiated claim.

Nobody's gone there and come back to tell us what its like.

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"This is death! This is death as this emanation of the female which leads to unification ... death and love ... this is the abyss." This is not music", said [Sabaneev] to him, "this is something else..." - "This is the Mysterium," he said softly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:58 am 
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Dear Advent.

I totally agree that from a purely scientific point of view, there is not the slightest bit of evidence either for or against the existence of an afterlife.

As for your fear of nothingness, you seem to totally forget that you won't be aware of the nothingness!

Raymond


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:00 am 
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True... but I am aware now... and the present is scary enough without having to worry about the future.

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"This is death! This is death as this emanation of the female which leads to unification ... death and love ... this is the abyss." This is not music", said [Sabaneev] to him, "this is something else..." - "This is the Mysterium," he said softly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:13 am 
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DA....this man is 88 years old or something and he's not scared! Follow his example. ;)

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:25 am 
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Easier said than done.

Unfortunatly... I'm just afraid of a lot of things... and it's not always easy to conquer fear.

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"This is death! This is death as this emanation of the female which leads to unification ... death and love ... this is the abyss." This is not music", said [Sabaneev] to him, "this is something else..." - "This is the Mysterium," he said softly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:46 am 
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Dear Charlie

I can well understand your fear of death, my only point is that it is not realistic-- it is somewhat like a child's fear of the bogey man. The fear, of course is real; the bogey man is not. Despite the irrationality of the fear of death, it is quite natural, and probably has survival value. And so I suggest that instead of trying to get rid of your fear, you simply embrace it and have a good laugh over it!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:52 am 
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Hmmm... well I suppose we should just leave it at that.

No point in my depressing everybody who comes to this forum...

Back to a happy matter:

So how about that Rachmainoff? Is he something or what? :D

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"This is death! This is death as this emanation of the female which leads to unification ... death and love ... this is the abyss." This is not music", said [Sabaneev] to him, "this is something else..." - "This is the Mysterium," he said softly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:54 am 
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I too have this depressing feeling overcome me when I think about death, because I personally feel that there is nothing after it. It's so... weird (shudders).

As for religion itself, I probably am not mature enough to say I'm an atheist, but I do not believe in any form of a god. For some reason I still consider myself Jewish like the rest of my family, but I don't really believe in the spiritual aspect of it, more of the ideas like "do not steal," "be kind to those around you," and that sort of thing. I have to admit, though, having holidays - whether I celebrate them or not - always makes me kind of happy. For example, even though I don't celebrate it, I always get a great, warm, loving feeling when Christmas comes. I also am guilty of often using phrases like "Oh my God" even though I don't believe in any god, so don't get mad at that or anything.

I believe that the processes of science are strictly responsible for the creation of the universe (e.g. the Big Bang), and that humans have come about naturally. I find it kind of disapointing that people don't take credit for their achievements in life or how beneficial some situations turn out, instead giving credit to (in my belief) a nonexistent omniscient being. I feel that all of the progress on Earth has been made by the creatures on it. Knowing a little bit about quantum mechanics and the seemingly unrelated existentialism, I do not believe in destiny and feel that some things happen for no reason because nothing in life is completely predictable.

Religion seems to be the root cause of many problems in the world, and I'm sure many of you would agree. Obviously many wars have been fought over religion, but it's caused much of the high need for political correctness these days. Now Muslim extremists are killing hundreds of people in the name of their god, and I believe this shows how corrupt the entire institution and idea of religion has become. Why are we all fighting and arguing over something there is no proof for, when science explains and prooves many things more than adequately?

Now, it seems like President Bush has ushered in a reign of right wing religious zealots who force their religion (which is, and I hope this doesn't offend anyone, mostly Christianity) upon America. I know some of you might respond, "If you don't believe in it, don't listen," but religion should be a private matter. People like Ann Coulter disgust me (Google her or search her on YouTube to see some of the idiotic things she has said, like that Jews need to be perfected to be as great as Christians). For any Americans reading this, I find it atrocious that Mitt Romney is only being judged on his belief in Mormonism, and that religion has to be one of the first things people look at when considering a presidential candidate. My ideal president would be an atheist, and would therefore not have any prejudices or biases concerning things like gay rights and abortion rights, which are being influenced largely based on a country's predominant religion. I know that here in America it could be a while before the aforementioned rights will become actual rights because they are against the Christian faith, which pretty much rules this country. It goes so much against the laws set down by American founders that religion and politics should not mix. It is such a shame that many decisions have to be made by people around the world not based on what they personally feel, but what a Bible, Torah, Qu'ran, priest, rabbi, imam, etc. tells them. It's as if religion is a way of controlling what everyone feels and believes.

Religion may have had good intentions thousands of years ago, but those purposes have since been corrupted and misused many times over. I can understand how ancient peoples needed a way to explain the world around them, but in this day and age of science, it seems kind of pointless obsolete. It seems highly probable that the world would be more peaceful and unified (not like totalitarian communist kind of unified) if people could finally let go of these beliefs that are unfortunately displayed too much and even more unfortunately shape who they are.

Well, sorry that that was so long. I hope at least one of you managed to make it this far without being bored to tears. I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone - please tell me if I have. I'm also sorry if I was focusing on the United States too much, but that's where I live and therefore have the most opinion about it.

I want to know what you think of this 15 year old high schooler's opinion.


Last edited by chopinman0901 on Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:56 am 
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I agree completely.

So... How bout that Rachmaninoff? Anyone? :D

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"This is death! This is death as this emanation of the female which leads to unification ... death and love ... this is the abyss." This is not music", said [Sabaneev] to him, "this is something else..." - "This is the Mysterium," he said softly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:43 am 
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chopinman0901 wrote:
I'm also sorry if I was focusing on the United States too much, but that's where I live and therefore have the most opinion about it.

One thing that I've noticed over the good few years I've been frequenting international English-speaking websites - a good many people all over the world are quite concerned with our politics and the general mass-mindset of our citizens. And probably with good reason...

Quote:
I want to know what you think of this 15 year old high schooler's opinion.

I think you're pretty mature on this subject, and you seem to be pretty even-minded about it. There's quite a bit of atheism-outing going on in our country right now, and I think it's a good sign. Not because we're out to eradicate religion or anything - but just because atheism has been such a taboo for so long. By a long step, the highest-ranking non-theist in our government is a lone Congressman out of several hundred. I think that is clearly not so much that all of them are theists in practice, but that they all know it could easily cost them their position if their true thoughts on the subject were known, not because of any official "religious test" in our Constitution, but because the vote itself for so many is a religious test.

Religious tolerance to a high degree is required, nearly anywhere you go, simply because there are so many religions and denominations within religions that it is truly impossible to get everyone to agree on any one religion. That is precisely the problem that brought about our founders' dedication to separating church and state. A man might feel like it is his duty to god and to his fellow man to make an official church, but he realizes that this will open up the path for another religion to seize control and force him to practice a religion he does not agree with.

In the US, Christianity is undeniably predominant. Something close to 90% of all Americans, depending on which study you peruse, claim belief in some god or another. Over 80% claim Christianity. Probably quite a few less than that go to church regularly. The solid fundamentalists make up about 30% of our voters, and something around another 20% are at least in part influenced by Christian fundamentalist ideas.

This is something that will change - not quickly, but gradually, as it becomes more socially acceptable to profess atheism.

demonic_advent wrote:
So... How bout that Rachmaninoff? Anyone?

Weren't we talking about that on another thread? :p

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:41 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
chopinman0901 wrote:
Religion seems to be the root cause of many problems in the world, and I'm sure many of you would agree.



False. The problems are rooted in power not religion. No religion is centered on brutality and war. Religion is used to justifiy going to war. Furthermore, those who say that their religion urges them to fight, are misinterpreting the words. Take for example Islamic extremists, they skew their own religion and any Muslim around the world would tell you that their religion is a peaceful one.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:42 pm 
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I believe that humans cannot grasp the power of religion, and sometimes use it as an excuse to perform evil deeds. (Ex. Crusades, Jihad, Holocaust, etc.)

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"This is death! This is death as this emanation of the female which leads to unification ... death and love ... this is the abyss." This is not music", said [Sabaneev] to him, "this is something else..." - "This is the Mysterium," he said softly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:55 pm 
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What I'm saying is that if there was no religion, there would be no power or influence to abuse based on faith.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:25 pm 
:roll:


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