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 Post subject: Sheet Music
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:29 am 
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I have been in contact with IMSLP for some time regarding a collaboration between them and us and from now, sheet music linked from Piano Society will be hosted by IMSLP instead of being located locally. Sheet music is the core business for IMSLP as recordings are for us and the cooperation will be of great benefit for both of us.

On http://imlsp.org, there will be a possibility to link to our recordings and a suggestion to do so will be available. So whenever you submit a recording, make sure to link it from IMSLP too.

The cooperation has not really started yet but I will asap begin to re-link the scores and they will provide the possibility to link to our recordings.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:34 am 
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I have by now linked all sheets to IMSLP.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:50 am 
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robert wrote:
I have by now linked all sheets to IMSLP.

Whao, that is a damn quick job !

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:59 am 
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techneut wrote:
robert wrote:
I have by now linked all sheets to IMSLP.

Whao, that is a damn quick job !

Bulk jobs are just me ;). My shoulders are in pain.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:22 am 
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robert wrote:
techneut wrote:
robert wrote:
I have by now linked all sheets to IMSLP.

Whao, that is a damn quick job !

Bulk jobs are just me ;). My shoulders are in pain.

Come on over here and join our afternoon RSI session :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:11 am 
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Good job indeed!

One thing though: Does anybody know if IMSLP accepts scores created by users (generated by Lilypond, Finale etc.)? The thing is, I've begun making a Lilypond score of the Balakirev Mazurka I've recorded.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:30 am 
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How come IMSLP does not make any headlines about the merging? That's just a sign of disrespect :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:51 pm 
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I believe they are just slower than I am. I have sent them our logotype and they will make it possible to link to recordings from Piano Society within a short time. When we are there, I or any editor can go there and link to our recordings, pianists, composer page or whereever we like and make a lot advertising for Piano Society for free.

But if they by some reason will never do this, backing to host the sheets locally is as easy as going into each genre and make "undo" on the last change. About 1000 page edits, I know but I will do it if they do not stick to their promise.


juufa72 wrote:
How come IMSLP does not make any headlines about the merging? That's just a sign of disrespect :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Piano Society is on the front page of IMSLP.
http://imslp.org/

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Now all you have to do is sit back and watch the numbers grow! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:34 pm 
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juufa72 wrote:
Now all you have to do is sit back and watch the numbers grow! :wink:

Yep! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:50 am 
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If you check on IMSLP.org and any composer that we have recordings for, there is a headline saying: "Recordings: Piano Society" which links to that specific recording. That what Internet is about, give and get, share and receive.

Now it is time to create an account at Wikipedia and do the same ;).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:32 am 
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I am not sure if you have read what has happened to IMSLP.org (go to their site) but I will let you know that I have offered my help. I hope Feldmahler respond soon and that we can cooperate on some way. I would just hate to see this wonderful project closed down forever.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:25 am 
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robert wrote:
I am not sure if you have read what has happened to IMSLP.org (go to their site) but I will let you know that I have offered my help. I hope Feldmahler respond soon and that we can cooperate on some way. I would just hate to see this wonderful project closed down forever.


Such a shame! It's always been a fine sheet music database...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:26 am 
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That is horrible. Really horrible. Did he get a Cease and Desist order because there was something up that wasn't in the public domain? I thought they checked all of those things. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:27 am 
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Yesh, one just about took it for granted that everything you wanted was there. Seems like they have lost a battle with Universal Edition. If so, that does not spell good for the future of free sheetmusic.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:39 pm 
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Here's the Cease and Desist letter (PDF). :( :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:12 pm 
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I was just beginning to use IMSLP more often, so I will miss it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:28 pm 
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Having read that letter, it seems like a knee-jerk reaction to take down the entire site. All they are being summoned to do is to remove copyrighted material from Universal Edition, and prevent same from being uploaded in the future.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:29 pm 
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I got the impression that he was already overwhelmed with trying to keep up the site, and that this came at a bad time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:33 pm 
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So....how difficult would it be to go back to what you guys did before, linking the scores on Piano Society?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:23 am 
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techneut wrote:
Having read that letter, it seems like a knee-jerk reaction to take down the entire site. All they are being summoned to do is to remove copyrighted material from Universal Edition, and prevent same from being uploaded in the future.


I know, I get the feeling there's something else he's not saying. Why not just remove the allegedly copyright-violating files? For crying out loud, there weren't that many!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!:evil: :!: :!: :!:

(i'm pissed off)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:37 am 
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This is for sure a sad thing
Hope the whole project gets revived at some point
Robert,any chance the Piano Society can take over the project?
Also, any such danger awaiting the Piano Society?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:47 am 
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I'm not sure PS can take it over as it is probably as time consuming as this is or even more. But I could perhaps host it in Sweden where it will be untouchable for the 1923 rule. The EU rule will apply which will mean 1937 for composers and publications.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:51 am 
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And regarding all the links that now points to just their front text side, I will not do any change for some time to see of they come up with a solution.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:22 am 
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I hope we all learn a lesson from this: err on the side of caution!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:44 am 
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I'm still speechless about this. I still can't believe it. That website was the ultimate sheet music resource! It pisses me off that they would shut down the whole site over a few files. That music company must be really greedy if they couldn't just take off the files in question. Argh!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 am 
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From what I understand, they not only called for the removal of those certain files, but also for him to put filtering on the site to prevent people from uploading further copyrighted stuff, and I think that's what he was stressing about.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:20 am 
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If you click on the IMSLP link on our homepage you can keep up to date with what's happening; today he says that IMSLP will probably be back in a couple of months; we shall see.

IMSLP has it's own forum and Universal Edition has entered into the discussion there, very interesting...

http://imslpforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=664


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:29 am 
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I find the IMSLP forum discussion mind-numbingly boring. It's painfully obvious who screwed up. Hint: not UE.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:25 am 
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Dunno, Pete...there seems to be some serious ambiguity as to whether EU copyright laws can actually be enforced on a Canadian organization.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:26 am 
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IMSLP is down and out for the count!!!!! :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Not quite yet. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:52 pm 
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You know, I'm kind of ashamed that when this happened, my first reaction was: Oh crap! I should've downloaded more stuff! :oops: But, it is sad to see such a great resource taken off the web.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:01 pm 
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nathanscoleman wrote:
You know, I'm kind of ashamed that when this happened, my first reaction was: Oh crap! I should've downloaded more stuff! :oops:

I have to admit thinking exactly the same ... I bet we all did.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:31 pm 
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techneut wrote:
nathanscoleman wrote:
You know, I'm kind of ashamed that when this happened, my first reaction was: Oh crap! I should've downloaded more stuff! :oops:

I have to admit thinking exactly the same ... I bet we all did.


That was my first thought, too. At least I got all the Scarlatti. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:17 am 
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Actually, I have downloaded a LOT before they went down and also, it is still possible to download EVERYTHING. Why? Well, there is something as Google cache and they also cache PDF-files.

For example, run a google search at "Beethoven Sonatas IMSLP" and instead of clicking on the actual link, press the "Cached" instead and Volá! Everything is there. Even better, it is provided by Google which gives 100 times the speed of imslp when you download.

But hurry up! Google cache does not stay cached for more than a month!!!

Google is a great backup isn't it? ;) I have recovered many mistakes from their cache even for Piano Society. I have downloaded and backuped 702 scores so far and my plan is to make a backup for everything present on Piano Society. If they do not come up at all, we still have everything and can link it locally.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:17 am 
Hello Robert,

I'm trying to browse Google Cache but i found no way to get pdf files even doing the same search as you... Have you a sample URL?

Best Regards,
Sandor


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:57 pm 
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sandor wrote:
I'm trying to browse Google Cache but i found no way to get pdf files even doing the same search as you... Have you a sample URL?

It is easy to find the cached page. But the link for the pdf in that page obviously still points to the original location at http://imslp.org, which does not presently exist. If you click it, you will get the explanatory page rather than the pdf. Apparently IMSLP has blocked hotlinking, or else it would have made little sense to take the site down. And it seems like Google only caches the pages, not the targets of all files linked from that page. Which is probably intentional - even Google can't have the resources to back up the entire world ...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:09 am 
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I'm not so sure about that. :lol: They're just probably trying to figure out how to make money off of it...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:11 am 
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They're just probably trying to figure out how to make money off of it...


It's probably true... The letter does not ask for shutdown of the site just for ip filtering on some music sheet...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:30 pm 
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I just thought that maybe PS should take the IMSLP logo off the site for now

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:57 am 
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techneut wrote:
sandor wrote:
I'm trying to browse Google Cache but i found no way to get pdf files even doing the same search as you... Have you a sample URL?

It is easy to find the cached page. But the link for the pdf in that page obviously still points to the original location at http://imslp.org, which does not presently exist. If you click it, you will get the explanatory page rather than the pdf. Apparently IMSLP has blocked hotlinking, or else it would have made little sense to take the site down. And it seems like Google only caches the pages, not the targets of all files linked from that page. Which is probably intentional - even Google can't have the resources to back up the entire world ...

Hm! That worked just the other day when I tested, I promise you that and I have copying a huge bunch of their sheets in case they will not show up again.

I could take down the logo...but still hope for them to re-establish their service.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:24 pm 
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robert wrote:
Hm! That worked just the other day when I tested, I promise you that and I have copying a huge bunch of their sheets in case they will not show up again.

I can only think that since then, they have disabled linking directly to files.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:29 am 
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Did anyone read this article (BBC)?

The day the music died

Internet law professor Michael Geist examines a legal row which could have grave implications for anyone and everyone serving an online audience.


In February 2006, a part-time Canadian music student established a modest, non-commercial website that used collaborative wiki tools, such as those used by Wikipedia, to create an online library of public domain musical scores.

Within a matter of months, the International Music Score Library Project (IMSLP) featured more than 1,000 musical scores for which the copyright had expired in Canada.

Within two years - without any funding, sponsorship or promotion - the site had become the largest public domain music score library on the internet, generating a million hits per day, featuring over 15,000 scores by over 1,000 composers, and adding 2,000 new scores each month.

In mid-October this year the IMSLP disappeared from the internet.

Universal Edition, an Austrian music publisher, retained a Canadian law firm to demand that the site block European users from accessing certain works and from adding new scores for which the copyright had not expired in Europe.

The company noted that while the music scores entered the public domain in Canada 50 years after a composer's death, Europe's copyright term is 20 years longer.

The legal demand led to many sleepless nights as the student struggled with the prospect of liability for activity that is perfectly lawful in Canada.

The site had been very careful about copyright compliance, establishing a review system by experienced administrators who would only post new music scores that were clearly in the Canadian public domain.

Notwithstanding those efforts, on 19 October, the law firm's stated deadline, the student took the world's best public domain music scores site offline.

While the site may resurface - at least one volunteer group has offered to host it - the case places the spotlight on the compliance challenges for websites facing competing legal requirements.

There is little doubt that the site was compliant with Canadian law.

Not only is there no obligation to block non-Canadian visitors, but the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that sites such as IMSLP are entitled to presume that they are being used in a lawful manner. The site would therefore not be subject to claims that it authorised infringement.

Further, while there have been some suggestions that the site also hosted works that were not in the Canadian public domain, Universal Edition never bothered to provide the IMSLP with a complete list of allegedly infringing works.

Although IMSLP is on safe ground under Canadian law, the European perspective on the issue is more complicated.

There is no question that some of the site's music scores would infringe European copyright law if sold or distributed in Europe. However, the IMSLP had no real or substantial connection - the defining standard for jurisdiction - with Europe.

Indeed, if Universal Edition were to file a lawsuit in Austria, it is entirely possible that the Austrian court would dismiss it on the grounds that it cannot assert jurisdiction over the Canadian-based site.

And even if it did assert jurisdiction, it is unlikely that a Canadian court would uphold the judgment.

This case is enormously important from a public-domain perspective.

If Universal Edition is correct, then the public domain becomes an offline concept, since posting works online would immediately result in the longest copyright term applying on a global basis.

Moreover, there are even broader implications for online businesses. According to Universal Edition, businesses must comply both with their local laws and with the requirements of any other jurisdiction where their site is accessible - in other words, the laws of virtually every country on earth.

It is safe to say that e-commerce would grind to a halt under that standard since few organisations can realistically comply with hundreds of foreign laws.

Thousands of music aficionados are rooting for the IMSLP in this dispute. They ought to be joined by anyone with an interest in a robust public domain and a viable e-commerce marketplace.

Michael Geist holds the Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, Faculty of Law. He can be reached at mgeist@uottawa.ca or online at www.michaelgeist.ca.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:15 am 
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Europe :roll: ...always complaining. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:40 am 
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juufa72 wrote:
Europe :roll: ...always complaining. :wink:


Is this a complaint? :lol:

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juufa72 wrote:
Europe :roll: ...always complaining. :wink:


It's the armpit hair and bad cologne. :lol: Makes people irritable. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Ther are news about IMSLP...... http://imslp.on-wiki.net/


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:41 pm 
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It's good to know that he's working on it. And though I agree with his general sentiment on the subject...

Feldmahler wrote:
My friends, weep with me. Weep for the resistance of the classical music world to all efforts to save it. Weep for the robbery of culture by a few people at the expense of the society. Weep for our slow but steady decent into the darkness that is Nash equilibrium. Weep with me, my friends.


Don't you think he's getting a bit overdramatic? :lol:

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