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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:04 pm
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Location: Louisiana, USA
You know, I've experienced this problem too. I didn't play the piano hardly at all for almost 10 years and when I got a piano again, my first piece I wanted to play was the Liszt Dante sonata. Of course, the notes and all were there, but I couldn't play all the way through for a long while. All those little muscles needed time to get back in shape I guess. I can play it through now and seem to be getting stronger all the time.

Keep going ... it'll happen!!

Have you tried practicing in different rhythms?? I found it helped me a lot on the 10/4 Etude to build speed. (16 notes = 1 beat + triplet)

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the one, the only ... Nathan Coleman
"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Terez wrote:
I can't practice it slowly. It's not really the technique I've got a problem with - it's the endurance needed to play it at performance tempo. I can play any given section perfectly at performance tempo. It's just playing the whole thing that I have problems with. :lol:

I'm way past the point of practicing hands separate and slow. I'm at the point where speed is required.


slower playing not slowly. many loops will build up your endurance just like the weight training....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:00 pm 
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Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
pianolady wrote:
I have heard that you are supposed to skip a day in between working certain muscles. When you work muscles, it puts tiny tears in the tissue, and this gives them a chance to heal. Since you have the notes down, maybe this is the answer?


I do skip a day fairly regularly to let my muscles rest, but I don't feel comfortable skipping every other day. I hope it's enough. :)

nathanscoleman wrote:
Have you tried practicing in different rhythms?? I found it helped me a lot on the 10/4 Etude to build speed. (16 notes = 1 beat + triplet)


No, I haven't done that - I've practiced without pedal, I've practiced in spurts, for example: only the upward notes, and then only the downward notes; and then upward, pause, and come in on the second beat of the next measure through the upward, repeat. Stuff like that.

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:26 pm 
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johnmar78 wrote:
Terez wrote:
I can't practice it slowly. It's not really the technique I've got a problem with - it's the endurance needed to play it at performance tempo. I can play any given section perfectly at performance tempo. It's just playing the whole thing that I have problems with. :lol:

I'm way past the point of practicing hands separate and slow. I'm at the point where speed is required.


slower playing not slowly. many loops will build up your endurance just like the weight training....


Find the fastest tempo that you could play the piece continually for 15 minutes without pain. That's your tempo.

What tempo is it Terez?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:46 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
So if none of above can solve your pain... just play loud on piano..keep it going and let the bodys natural morphine to overcome that pain. And your problem will be solved. Sometimes it would be nice play hard and break the strings. When that happens, you know this is not the right piece for you.


you need a rest and good luck.....


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:23 am 
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Terez, have you found the tempo at which the pain begins?

Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:45 pm 
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Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
No; I'm sort of busy trying to perfect the Bach for an early performance in a couple of weeks, so I'm only playing through it twice a day - once at warmup tempo and once at performance tempo. Calling the piece ABA form, I start to feel pain in the B section but it doesn't get really bad to the point that I can't play the right notes any more until the return of the A section.

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:02 am 
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Okay, take your time! :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:08 pm 
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Have you tried moving the bench out just a little? If you are even just a little too close, the arm weight can work against you rather than for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:58 pm 
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mary wrote:
Have you tried moving the bench out just a little? If you are even just a little too close, the arm weight can work against you rather than for you.

Yes, definitely. It freaks my teacher out how far back I sit on this one (probably at least 6 inches further back than I sit for other stuff). Most of the reason for that is my bra size, though - I have too much interference sitting close to the keyboard (the interference is bad also for hand crossing).

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:16 am 
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Location: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
I have too much interference sitting close to the keyboard (the interference is bad also for hand crossing)


OMG! I'm having the exact same problem ... except I have to try reaching around my belly ... not usually that big of deal ... but Liszt has this ridiculous hands crossed section in the Dante sonata ... it's killing me ... seriously, I may have to think about diet and exercise soon ... ugh!

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the one, the only ... Nathan Coleman
"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:11 am 
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Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
Yeah....it's no surprise that most of the great pianists are slender, and the females relatively flat-chested. :lol:

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:14 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Canada
Terez wrote:
mary wrote:
Have you tried moving the bench out just a little? If you are even just a little too close, the arm weight can work against you rather than for you.

Yes, definitely. It freaks my teacher out how far back I sit on this one (probably at least 6 inches further back than I sit for other stuff). Most of the reason for that is my bra size, though - I have too much interference sitting close to the keyboard (the interference is bad also for hand crossing).

Yeah....it's no surprise that most of the great pianists are slender, and the females relatively flat-chested.


Hmmmmm..........DISCLAIMER TO ALL MEN WHO ARE UNCOMFORTABLE with such things as FEMININE product commercials, (except Nathan who admits to similar frontal obstruction problem, so may benefit from reading), you may not want to read this post.

But.......I feel compelled to reply because I have similar, shall we say "features" as Terez, and yes it can be embarassing but hey, genetic disposition cannot be fought against. So....this is an issue for me when it comes to playing and now for some of my teenage students, and it deserves to be addressed. What I've discovered for self and what I tell the more voluptuous gals in the studio is that you simply will NOT be able to avoid "bumping or leaning into/onto" these features, at least not without using incorrect arm/wrist positions and movements, so get comfortable with the inner part of the upper arm often contacting and even pushing onto/against them.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:56 am 
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Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
I don't have any sort of prudish issues with the touching, at all. But you can only squish so much, you know? :lol: The first time I realized that my chest was going to be a problem playing piano was a dozen years or so ago when I was playing Beethoven's Sonata in D Minor 31/2 - the second movement. It was sad when I realized I would NEVER be able to play it. :(

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:04 pm
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Location: Louisiana, USA
Hey, I like boob grazing as much as the next guy! :lol:

My problem is the angle it forces my arm into ... puts tension on elbow, torques wrist ... not a problem for short forays across, but for extended periods ... not nice.

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the one, the only ... Nathan Coleman
"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


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