Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:18 am

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:47 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9522
Location: Netherlands
My edition (spurious, perhaps) has a fermata on a 32nd rest after them; since it's a fermata I hold it longer; you said the same thing about my a minor mazurka.I feel these are an operatic sort of gesture, I play them as a grand pause; it's what the fermata seems to indicate.

My edition has the same, so it must be intended. Guess it's just me being bloody-minded about it.

I pedal through the rest in bar 4, don't remember if you do; I'll listen tomorrow,

DOn't bother - I pedal thru everything. Consistent pedal use will never be my forte...

Trill... hmmm, my score indicates a mordent with a flat sign (indicating Cb) over it; does your Paderewski score indicate that, or something else . I will listen to your recording tomorrow, I don't recall a screwup.
My ed. does not have the flat sign, that explains the difference. But are you sure it's a mordent ? If it was (in the 'Bach sense') it should play Bb-A-Bb (or in your case Bb-Ab-Bb). I think it's s trillo, though not started on the upper note as in Bach. Seems like ornamentation is more difficult to interpret here than in Baroque music....

Heh, my arpeggios in the A2 section and scales in the meno mosso are quite sloppy.
Perhaps they could have been more slick, but there's definitely nothing sloppy. Give yourself some credit !

I was planning to do the Op.26 No.2 as well, just to have the pair of them (always felt they belong together).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am
Posts: 692
Location: Germany
Chase, I listened to your take too, and I like it very much!

Your "tempo fluctuations" (how Chris declared it) are for me tasteful musical driven, so it sounds logical to me. You play very musical and take care for phrasings, so it is for sure an enrichment to have it in the recordings section too.

Beside this I find it on one hand interesting to discuss about the manner how one performs the ornamentation (from upper note or not, or a mordent instead trillo and so on). However this goes more in the direction of personal interpretation (so I see it), so it is difficult to claim what is right or wrong here. What counts more to me is how does it sound to me, regardless if it is started from upper or lower or base note, e.g. the eveness and the speed.
I thought Chopin himself liked it in the Baroque way, starting from upper note? I will check the book "Chopi seen by his pupils" since there are quotations from primary sources about that. The theme is worth to discuss in the technique section deeper!

_________________
Olaf Schmidt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:26 am
Posts: 252
Location: Arizona
[
My edition has the same, so it must be intended. Guess it's just me being bloody-minded about it.

Bloody minded is a good thing! What are we without convictions? I think it can go either way; the important thing is to do it well, however we do it.

[
DOn't bother - I pedal thru everything. Consistent pedal use will never be my forte...

So do I! You're good at it. Just a little less, sometimes.

My ed. does not have the flat sign, that explains the difference. But are you sure it's a mordent ? If it was (in the 'Bach sense') it should play Bb-A-Bb (or in your case Bb-Ab-Bb). I think it's s trillo, though not started on the upper note as in Bach. Seems like ornamentation is more difficult to interpret here than in Baroque music....

Man you know your ornaments! Must be really cool being a church organist in protestant Europe. you seem to be able to play all the Bach and Buxtehude you want. If you did that at most churches in the western USA you'd be considered archaic, they want white gospel and contemporary Christian music here; the "praise bands " have taken over...

I can never remember the name for all those squiggles, but I know this one goes uopbecause the flat sign is above the squiggle thing :D

.Perhaps they could have been more slick, but there's definitely nothing sloppy. Give yourself some credit !

Thanks. We hear things in our recordings that others don't hear, thank God! Clinkers are a sore spot with me; I'm afraid that I will always be one of those pianists who drops notes occasionally. Not acceptable in today's classical piano world. Maybe the esthetic will change (hah) or I will attain technical perfection! I feel that I'm getting better all the time, after a long stay on the same plateau. :)

I was planning to do the Op.26 No.2 as well, just to have the pair of them (always felt they belong together).

I have the most extraordinary recording of Cziffra (I know you don't care for him) playing the eb minor, it's very low-key and introspective (unlike him, generally) a perfectly paced performance.

Maybe we should both record it, maintain the tradition!

You go first; I have to learn all that Russian music, and over the next two weeks get some Scarlatti :evil: and Albeniz (Curranda and maybe Cordoba) and perhaps some more Chopin mazurkas or some waltzes recorded. Some Debussy... ? That giant list of pieces I was going to record has gotten smaller; no matter, we do what we can!

And now to sleep! My young students come back tomorrow, including a new 8 year old and a second lesson with a very bright 11 year old, who likes to play and plays well. :D 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:15 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9522
Location: Netherlands
Well you have to know your ornaments if you want to play Bach (whether on organ or otherwise). Always refer to the famous list Bach drew up for Wilhelm Friedemann. This is the "ornament bible", find it e.g. on

http://members.aol.com/kjvisbest/jsb_ornm.htm

Having said that, things were different, and less well-defined, by the time of Chopin.

Ok, onwards to 26.2 now - another great and underrated Polonaise. The trio is just gorgeous !

And you need to dig into Medtner now... Be strong ! :twisted:

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:22 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9522
Location: Netherlands
Quote:
Man you know your ornaments! Must be really cool being a church organist in protestant Europe. you seem to be able to play all the Bach and Buxtehude you want. If you did that at most churches in the western USA you'd be considered archaic, they want white gospel and contemporary Christian music here; the "praise bands " have taken over...

That'll be the day when I leave. Fortunately this is an oldfashioned choir with a traditional repertoir, not always equally interesting but there's nice things among it. The Bach etc. is strictly for my own enjoyment and education, nobody ever listens to it. Except whem I make them and then they fidget because it is too long and too loud and too difficult.

Gee I wish I was able to play everything I want. As it is, I'm doggedly struggling with pieces far beyond my reach, like the 6-voice fugue on 'Aus tiefer not schrei ich zu Dir". Double pedal, arghhhhh... it is madness to even try. But I won't be happy until I can play it. Sigh.

Sorry for being miles OT. But arensky started it :P

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:25 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8477
Arensky, your rendition is very nice. You and techneut do play the piece similarly. I don't have any details to talk about since I haven't been seriously into this piece like you guys.
Going off topic a bit - I wish Chopin would have put a different ending to this piece. It just seems to stop with no...I don't know...no finalty. You hardly know the piece is over until you realize that there is no more playing. Just my thoughts for the day - sorry, techneut, I'll try to keep my ramblings in check.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9522
Location: Netherlands
No, no, ramble on... that is what forums are for, and it's still on-topic. You're quite right in that it just 'stops' rather than have a properly climactic ending, and it's a bit of an anticlimax. Even so, it's a great piece.

I have just put Arensky's version on the site too. Sounds a bit brighter than mine but indeed the conceptions don't differ too much. Seems like we both intend to record more of the early Polonaises. What coincidence !

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:26 am
Posts: 252
Location: Arizona
Hmm, the quote function is not working, it says "error" and DEBUG MODE and a bunch of technical stuff; is it the site or me?

Anyway techneut's right, his Polonaise and mine are really very similar, we have a different rythmic conception but I don't think one is necessarily better than the other.

Pianolady, interesting your comment about the ending; I'll bet that's why this piece isn't played so much, in fact all the Polonaises except op.53 and the Polonaise Fantaisie op.61 have anti-climatic endings; the c minor op.40 #2 and the f# minor op.44 have forte endings, but they are not "decisive', they seem to be an afterthought or reaction to his standard dim. ending. Any thoughts on this? It must be part of the way the dance is danced. I'm also recalling something about the Chopin's use of the "feminine ending" in many of his nationalistic pieces. Anyone know more about that?

Heh just looked through the polonaises, don't think I can get one together for a decent recording what with everything else I have to do; however, I will go try the op. 40 #1 "Military", Nico-Morin Paul's recording has very bad sound quality, we should have a recording that isn't distorted. I will go try right now ( I did it 2 or 3 years ago), see if it comes back easily...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group