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 Post subject: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:13 am 
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Hi Chris,

If you do standardize the post tags (as you had mentioned in an Audition Room thread), I would advocate this general order: Composer, title, opus, number, and if from a suite, the suite name in parentheses at the end. Also:

Preludes of any composer should include key. Major keys need only be the capitalized letter--A, C# etc. You'd need a convention for minor keys such as Bm, B minor or b for consistency.

Also:

For Bach: title, suite or book if applicable, key, and BWV number.

For Haydn: title, key and Hoboken number.

For Mozart: title, key, and Koechel number.

Not only would this help you and Monica in processing recordings, but it would also inform all the other listeners as to the actual content of the recording they're about to hear.

Just my 2 cents worth. I'm posting this in General rather than a PM, as others might want to comment on it.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:24 am 
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Here are some instructions on file naming and ID tags:

HOW TO MAKE CORRECT FILE NAMES AND ID TAGS


NAMING

The name of a file should be:

composer-title-pianist.mp3

in all lowercase. Do not use any other characters other than letters, digits, and dashes (-). These dashes should always be there as this is how we break up the name into parts.


Composer

Just the last name, no initials, no prefixes.


Title

If there is an opus number, just use that number. If a composer has a catalogue, we add the letters of the catalogue (ex. Bach, bwv123, Mozart, kv123, Schubert, d123, Scarlatti, k123). Items within a set or series get a sequence number, and if these have sub items, another sequence number. Examples:

Chopin Mazurka Op.24. No. 4 should be:
chopin-24-4-pianist.mp3

Beethoven Sonata Op.31 no. 3, 2nd movement should be:
beethoven-31-3-2-pianist.mp3

When there is no opus number, use the work title (don't make it too long please). If it's a set, use the set name and then sequence numbers (not titles of individual items), e.g.

granados-seispiezas-2-pianist.mp3

Please take care to avoid misspelled composer/pianist names and different names for the same piece names. When in doubt about a name, look if there is a similar piece on the site and follow the naming of that. Or ask. It saves time to do it right the first time. Keep in mind that the 'stats' and 'new recordings' programs rely heavily on correct naming.

Pianist

Just the last name, no initials or prefixes.


ID3 TAGGING

ID3 tags are pieces of information within an mp3 file, which are used by the 'stats' and 'new' programs. You can add and edit these with a number of programs such as iTunes and the Windows music library/folder. In Windows, the tagging fields are listed directly underneath when you click one time on a file. In iTunes, you right click on a recording and chose ‘Get info’. This brings up the properties sheet – click the info tab. The ID3 tags we actually use are Name and Artist. We also recommend filling in the Year, Composer, and Genre.

Name

This is what is shown in an MP3 player. The syntax must be:
Composer - Name of piece (NOTE: THERE MUST BE A SPACE BEFORE AND AFTER THE DASH)
and (unlike in a filename) you are allowed to use uppercase letters and diacriticals.

Chopin - Mazurka in F Sharp Minor, Op. 6, No. 1

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:51 am 
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I have been busy writing up all this stuff at least twice and somehow never seem to be able to complete it. What always bogs me down are the many catalog systems for various composers, sometimes more than one per composer. Plus the fact we have been inconsistent (and sometimes still are) in naming. Not to mention the hairy topic of transcriptions..... Darn hard to lay down a complete and consistent set of rules that covers everything.

Ideally I would like a background job on the server that inspects all submissions for correct naming and tagging, and rejects them
automatically. But I'm a long way from there yet...

The rulez as posted above are a good start though. Maybe we should leave it at that to avoid having to write too much on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:55 pm 
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Hi,

I believe that my schema posted above pertains not so much for the tag information in doing the conversion to mp3 and in processing the recording into the archive, as important as that is, but more a voluntary effort for the members themselves in titling their postings in Audition Room. My guess is that the more specific the titling, the more members and visitors will open the post to read it and listen to the music. When titling is left vague, there might be more of a tendency to skip over it. Some people do enjoy surprises, but other others would rather know the content in advance. Just my theory. I should add that lately titling in Audition Room has been pretty good, so I'm not seeing it as a major problem.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:31 pm 
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Right, titling is not the same as tagging. It should be, though. The posting title should be exactly the same as the ID3 tag, e.g.

Chopin - 24 Preludes Op.28 - 7: Prelude in A major

Unless of course the posting contains more recordings.

It might happen someone skipping a post in AR because the title is not sufficiently specific. On the other hand, a non-specific title mat lead someone to investigate who would otherwise have skipped it, knowing exactly what to expect. I don't know which is the best or worst.
If naming and tagging was done correctly, the post title would not be of much concern to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am 
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Hi Chris,

Most of the format conversion programs have good tagging features available. I use the one in AVS Audio Converter. So when the mp3 displays on Windows Media Player, invariably I see my name, the composer and the full identification of the piece. There are other fields I fill in as well, but they don't display during playback. They're undoubtedly in the tag file, but are suppressed so as not to appear. If somebody doesn't fill in the pertinent fields and puts a vague title in the post, then things become quite cryptic.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:15 am 
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All this I know :)

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
It seems like a good idea to have a consistent naming approach.

Re ID3 tags, does the stats program handle diacritic marks? Obviously Dvořák doesn't, as a string, = Dvorak unless you do some processing.

The convention for transcriptions is Original Composer-Arranger(s); again I'm sure that may introduce complications to any automated processing. I don't think I've even been consistent about this within my own uploads.

Small aside on the composer names:

pianolady wrote:
Composer

Just the last name, no initials, no prefixes.


means you have potential problems with the Bach family, not to mention Scarlatti(s), Clara Schumann, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:12 pm 
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andrew wrote:
It seems like a good idea to have a consistent naming approach.

No shit :D

andrew wrote:
Re ID3 tags, does the stats program handle diacritic marks? Obviously Dvořák doesn't, as a string, = Dvorak unless you do some processing.
Don't I know it. Diacriticals are a royal pain in the butt when doing scripting or C programming on Linux, especially as the ID3LIB library is a very old one that does not support this kind of thing.

andrew wrote:
means you have potential problems with the Bach family, not to mention Scarlatti(s), Clara Schumann, etc.
Tell me about it. Can't remember the number of times I've had to change my scripts to cope with double names, names with spaces, etc. It's all these exceptions and duplicate names that make it such a bitch to get right. The plain basics are covered easily enough, which we now did.

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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:21 pm 
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It's been a long time since I did any serious programming, and am not au fait with the environment you're working in, but it seems to me that you could deal with much of the diacriticals by pre-parsing composer names. Iirc the diacritic marks all reside in the same area of the ASCII codes, and you could define an array of substitution characters for each different ASCII code. That wouldn't take long, and is a fairly concise solution; of course it becomes more complex if the marks cannot always be replaced on a one-to-one character substitution basis, or if the marks affect preceding or succeeding characters also. I really wouldn't envy you the task of trying to automate the handling of variant (e.g. Cyrillic-derived) forms of composer names.


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 Post subject: Re: Titling recordings posted in Audition Room
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Oh I'm not saying that it is impossible. In commercial software it is the norm to deal with these things, as well as Unicode,
UTF-8, pre-Unicode double-byte charactersets, etc, etc... But I don't want to be going that way in my spare time. I'd just as soon request that diacriticals are not used in filenames. In ID3 tags they don't give a real problem, but it's still complicated as some tagging software uses extended ASCII and some uses Unicode. iTunes actually switched from one to another at some stage, and it's still giving me grief.

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