Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:43 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: recording
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:59 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8480
Quote:
Instead midi disc recorder, a much better, also much cheaper way is to take an external sound card with USB connector, like SoundBlaster, with cabability to record with 96kHz / 24 bit, and record directly in a silent notebook. This in addition to a pair condenser mics should be enough for amateur recordings with the claim to get something in the near of CD quality. For burning CDs you need to downsample to 44kHz/16 bit, or for sharing your pieces here you need to downsample to mp3 quality with 128 or 192 kbit.


Hi Mindenblues. Some of this I understand, but most of it is over my head. :? Do you mean that you use a regular notebook computer and plug in extra microphones to it? And does any notebook-type computer work? As per past discussions, I want to buy an Edirol someday, but I also need a notebook. I fear my clunky old desktop computer will give up in the near future. So if I buy a notebook, I can use it to record my piano playing? Then I don't need an Edirol, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am
Posts: 692
Location: Germany
The proposed signal chain with microphone and sound card is as follows:

2 microphones -> mixer -> external soundcard -> notebook.

That means, you use the hard disk of the notebook to store the pretty large wav- file coming from the soundcard via USB connector. The soundcard (I propose to take a cheap 2-channel Soundblaster card, with capability to record with 96kHz/24bit) has a microphone input, but that would work only with dynamic microphones since those microphones don't need an extra power supply.
The quality is really audible much better, if you take a couple of condenser mics, (I use a low cost matched couple TBone SC450, both mics together about 180 Euro, about 200 US-Dollar or whatever). Unfortunately, those mics need a power supply of +48V. Every cheap small mixer (50 US-Dollar perhaps) has such possibility. The output signal of those condenser mics is really large, so no much gain is needed inside the mixer. That's why it can (so I think) be a cheap mixer. The output of the mixer goes in the line-in input of the external soundcard.

A notebook is normally silent enough so that it can be placed in the same room where the piano is during recording. A desktop PC is more immobil, and has fan noise. After the file is captured in the notebook, in can be processed with the software package what is provided by the soundblaster card - in order to downsample to CD quality or to mp3 files.

The recording quality, the above mentioned way, is in my opinion, really better compared to the Edirol. If you listen to Edirol mp3's, there is considerable noise, and with the inbuilt mics, you cannot position the mics on right AND left side of the piano in order to capture bass and treble strings a bit separately in the stereo chain. I think, for mp3 files is the Edirol good enough (listen to Robert's and Chris recordings), for making own CD's I would not use the Edirol.

But the Edirol has the really big charme, to make a recording easy and without arrange the recording stuff with mics etc. Some days ago, I played on a family party. Somehow I liked to record it, but not with those mic stands what looks a bit strange for a party playing. An Edirol can be positioned more discretly. Also for my organ playing, often I wished to simple record it to check my playing. So sooner or later, I will buy such a part in addition to the above mentioned stuff too.

_________________
Olaf Schmidt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:47 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8480
Thanks, Mindenblues, for the thorough explanation.

Techneut and Robert. Have you ever made cd's out of your Edirol recordings?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am
Posts: 692
Location: Germany
I will not forestall an eventually reply by Chris or Robert, but you could check the quality yourself.
Simply listen to a recording done with Edirol, e.g. by Chris (Techneut) and compare it soundwise to a recording I did in the proposed way. Perhaps with headphone and with stereo home equipment in normal loudness, or louder. If you find the Edirol recording sufficient for own CD quality (I don't believe that the transformation mp3 -> wav (what is necessary for CD) drops quality - only in the other way wav -> mp3)), then go for the Edirol. I think, there is more noise in the Edirol recordings, and you have not that much degree of freedom regarding mic/Edirol placement for recording. But easy to use - push the button and record.
If your goal is more to get a higher quality recording and it troubles not so much to spent 15 minutes or so for establishing the recording equipment, using separate (condenser) mics, this should guarantee better recording quality compared to an Edirol.

I forgot to mention that instead a small mixer a better way would be to have a 2-channel microphone preamp with phantom power supply, to feed the soundcard line in input.

_________________
Olaf Schmidt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:17 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:27 pm
Posts: 1842
Location: Sweden
pianolady wrote:
Techneut and Robert. Have you ever made cd's out of your Edirol recordings?

No (cannot answer for Chris though) but the idea has occurred many times. And even release them at Piano Society. Perhaps also give pianists on this site a chance to release their own CD using Piano Society. Have about a dussin future plans but first, we must launch the new site.

_________________
Pianist profile of Robert


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am
Posts: 692
Location: Germany
Quote:
Quote:
Techneut and Robert. Have you ever made cd's out of your Edirol recordings?

No (cannot answer for Chris though) but the idea has occurred many times. And even release them at Piano Society. Perhaps also give pianists on this site a chance to release their own CD using Piano Society. Have about a dussin future plans but first, we must launch the new site.


I thought the question was how one can make CDs out of Edirol recordings (the technical point of view) but not to do so on certain mp3 postings here at PianoSociety?

If the question was, how to burn CDs out of Edirol recordings, then it is so that one needs to come to the target format for CDs. That is, 44 kHz/16bit format. One (preferred?) way is to record with Edirol in this format, than no conversion is necessary. Or to record in mp3 format, then a reconversion mp3->wav is necessary, possible with programs like CoolEdit or e.g. with the software one get with an external sound card like SoundBlaster. However, since mp3 files have quality losses because of information reduction, the resulting wav file will have those losses too (but the conversion mp3 -> wav will not introduce further new losses).

_________________
Olaf Schmidt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:28 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9534
Location: Netherlands
Quote:
Have you ever made cd's out of your Edirol recordings?

Hehe yes, I burn a CD for my mother whenever I have enough to fill one. Of course she's over the moon with it never mind the recessed sound and wonky playing :D

Actually when played on the home stereo it does not sound too bad at all, but certainly it is not sufficiently bright and detailed for a 'real' CD recording. I guess with a pair of external mikes lots
could be improved, but I'm just too lazy to bother with it. Don't think anybody would want to sit thru a CD of mine anyway, expect for good old mum :wink:

Using iTunes it's ridiculously easy - select any number of songs with the mouse, and click the 'Burn CD' button. If it's too much for one CD, iTunes will split it up over several CD's. You can also print a CD cover with track listings.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group