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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:41 am 
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alf wrote:
Terez wrote:
Mozart exposes technical weaknesses; Chopin exposes your soul. :wink:

It is exactly the opposite, Terez.

Is it then? I don't feel too terribly exposed when playing Mozart, but that's just me. With Chopin, I have to pretend like you're not there. ;)

Alfie wrote:
Anyway, Monica and Terez, I'll record that Nocturne sooner or later, but want a row of serious remarks from you then!

Aye, you'll get them. I'm sure it will be perfect though - you'd never submit anything less. I have a prediction: technically perfect, stylistically quite tasteful, if tame. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:55 am 
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alf wrote:
Horowitzian wrote:
I actually rather like Hanon.


Good grief.

Horowitzian wrote:
But YMMV. :wink:


Definitely! :lol:


:lol: :lol:

Well, I wouldn't be as technically proficient as I am without Hanon. :wink: It is rather repetitive, so I generally don't do more than, say, 10 of them in one day before moving on to the "real music". :) What was your bad experience with Hanon? I hope it wasn't an injury from overdoing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:56 am 
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Terez wrote:
Horowitzian wrote:
I've noticed that quotes are a bit dodgy on here. How do you get them to work properly every time? :?:

Disable HTML, either by checking a box in the post submission, or permanently in your profile.


Thanks, I just did that! I've never seen HTML interfere with BB code before. :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:41 am 
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Horowitzian wrote:

Pianolady, do you have Mr. Mohr's book, My Life With the Great Pianists? It has a lot of interesting stories about his work with Horwitz, Cliburn, Rubinstein, and Gilels; as well as his own personal life story. And that Moscow recital is simply incredible! 8) I've never been to any of Mr. Mohr's talks, but I've heard about them.


Yes, I do have that book. I bought it from him when I went to his talk. He seems to come around my home town often. But of course that's because of the big Steinway dealer located here. :wink:

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:52 am 
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pianolady wrote:
Horowitzian wrote:

Pianolady, do you have Mr. Mohr's book, My Life With the Great Pianists? It has a lot of interesting stories about his work with Horwitz, Cliburn, Rubinstein, and Gilels; as well as his own personal life story. And that Moscow recital is simply incredible! 8) I've never been to any of Mr. Mohr's talks, but I've heard about them.


Yes, I do have that book. I bought it from him when I went to his talk. He seems to come around my home town often. But of course that's because of the big Steinway dealer located here. :wink:


It's one of my favorite books I've ever bought. If he ever comes around here, I'm going to get him to sign it. Has he ever come around with Horowitz's piano? I've sworn to myself that I will play that piano at least once. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:33 pm 
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Location: Piemonte, Italy
Teresina wrote:
alf wrote:
Terez wrote:
Mozart exposes technical weaknesses; Chopin exposes your soul. :wink:

It is exactly the opposite, Terez.

Is it then? I don't feel too terribly exposed when playing Mozart, but that's just me. With Chopin, I have to pretend like you're not there. ;)


Let me partially amend my reply: to me, it is just the opposite.

Teresina wrote:
Alfie wrote:
Anyway, Monica and Terez, I'll record that Nocturne sooner or later, but want a row of serious remarks from you then!

Aye, you'll get them. I'm sure it will be perfect though - you'd never submit anything less. I have a prediction: technically perfect, stylistically quite tasteful, if tame. :lol:


Your crystal ball is quite talkative, isn't it? Did you know that Chopin himself was pretty a tame guy? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:10 pm 
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Horowitzian wrote:
Well, I wouldn't be as technically proficient as I am without Hanon. :wink:


Are you really sure you're pinpointing the cause of your proficiency? :wink:

Look at what kind of mechanism you develop practicing what is pompously called "The virtuoso pianist", then consider the endless piano literature and what it asks for (even in the easiest pieces). "Hanon" is little more than 5-finger mindless exercises in parallel motion. Pretty useless under every respect.

Horowitzian wrote:
It is rather repetitive, so I generally don't do more than, say, 10 of them in one day before moving on to the "real music". :) What was your bad experience with Hanon? I hope it wasn't an injury from overdoing it.


No injuries in my case, luckly I've never had problems of that kind. On the other hand, I've never overdone piano practice so I don't feel I'm especially smart about it.

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"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

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Last edited by alf on Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:59 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:20 pm 
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alf wrote:
Did you know that Chopin himself was pretty a tame guy? :P

Indeed. I also know that he preferred the way Liszt played his music, so long as he played what was on the page. :lol:

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Location: Piemonte, Italy
Terez wrote:
alf wrote:
Did you know that Chopin himself was pretty a tame guy? :P

Indeed. I also know that he preferred the way Liszt played his music, so long as he played what was on the page. :lol:


AFAIK, Chopin admired the way Liszt played the Etudes. The Nocturnes were Chopin's realm and nobody else's.

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"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:24 pm 
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I don't recall having read that, but I trust you. I do know that he didn't like the way other people played the mazurkas, though. 8)

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject: Re: Hello and introduction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:33 pm 
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alf wrote:
Horowitzian wrote:
Well, I wouldn't be as technically proficient as I am without Hanon. :wink:


Are you really sure you're pinpointing the cause of your proficiency? :wink:

Look at what kind of mechanism you develop practicing what is pompously called "The virtuoso pianist", then consider the endless piano literature and what it asks for (even in the easiest pieces). "Hanon" is little more than 5-finger mindless exercises in parallel motion. Pretty useless under every respect.

Horowitzian wrote:
It is rather repetitive, so I generally don't do more than, say, 10 of them in one day before moving on to the "real music". :) What was your bad experience with Hanon? I hope it wasn't an injury from overdoing it.


No injuries in my case, luckly I've never had problems of that kind. On the other hand, I've never overdone piano practice so I don't feel I'm especially smart about it.


I'm glad to hear you didn't have any injuries. 8)

Since I was a rather late beginner, Hanon combined with scales, arpeggios, and basic harmony helped me overcome those missed years of early training. Even so, like I said, YMMV.:wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Terez wrote:
I don't recall having read that, but I trust you. I do know that he didn't like the way other people played the mazurkas, though. 8)


I always have wondered what he would have thought of Horowitz's playing of Mazurkas. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:04 am 
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Terez wrote:
I don't recall having read that, but I trust you. I do know that he didn't like the way other people played the mazurkas, though. 8)


Performance-wise Chopin's Mazurkas are still a mistery today.

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"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

Alfonso Bertazzi, amateur pianist.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Yah, Chopin always said that the manner of playing them was a Polish thing (imagine that).

Has anyone heard Zimerman play mazurkas? I've only seen him play the bigger stuff, but speaking of the bigger stuff, he's of course done the concertos with the PFO, and the 3rd movement of the F minor concerto is a bit mazurkish in places, and he seems to have experimented with that Polish way of interpreting them in that movement.

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:43 pm 
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Terez wrote:
Yah, Chopin always said that the manner of playing them was a Polish thing (imagine that).

Has anyone heard Zimerman play mazurkas? I've only seen him play the bigger stuff, but speaking of the bigger stuff, he's of course done the concertos with the PFO, and the 3rd movement of the F minor concerto is a bit mazurkish in places, and he seems to have experimented with that Polish way of interpreting them in that movement.


Check this out, Terez:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKlYayg ... s&hl=en&q=


He could be Chopin, himself! Image (except I don't like some of the facial expressions)

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:57 pm 
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Terez wrote:
Has anyone heard Zimerman play mazurkas?


Yes, there's an old DG disc with Op. 24 Nos.1-2-4 (and the video from the 1975 Chopin Competition Monica's already indicated). If you want to listen to some really extraordinary interpretations of them go to YT and look for Ignaz Friedman. His Mazurkas are one of a kind and in my opinion he gives a possible account of that famous "Polish" thing you mentioned.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:51 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
Check this out, Terez:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKlYayg ... s&hl=en&q=


He could be Chopin, himself! Image (except I don't like some of the facial expressions)

He seems to mostly use a straight 3 tempo throughout that one. In the 3rd movement of the f minor concerto, he doesn't.

Alfie wrote:
If you want to listen to some really extraordinary interpretations of them go to YT and look for Ignaz Friedman. His Mazurkas are one of a kind and in my opinion he gives a possible account of that famous "Polish" thing you mentioned.

I'm listening to one of them now (63/3), but it seems to be straight 3 also.

Both interpretations are nice, but I still think Zimerman's interpretation of the 3rd movement of the f minor concerto is the only one that deviates from a strict meter. I can't get the Meyerbeer scenario out of my head...but I'm definitely willing to accept that the meter deviation could have been a lot subtler than the Meyerbeer anecdote implies (that would certainly explain why Chopin was originally so frustrated with Meyerbeer's insistence that Chopin played his mazurkas in 4).

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Terez wrote:
Alfie wrote:
If you want to listen to some really extraordinary interpretations of them go to YT and look for Ignaz Friedman. His Mazurkas are one of a kind and in my opinion he gives a possible account of that famous "Polish" thing you mentioned.


I'm listening to one of them now (63/3), but it seems to be straight 3 also.


Persevere, not all the Mazurkas are born equal. Some are more "Polish" than others. Try this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2s9BJBwlv0

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
Alfie, you must be mistaken. Here is a better recording of that Polish-sounding mazurka:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxTqjQxWd1w

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:17 pm 
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juufa72 wrote:
Alfie, you must be mistaken. Here is a better recording of that Polish-sounding mazurka:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxTqjQxWd1w


Juufie, you're right, Rubinstein sounds much more polished than Friedman.

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"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:25 pm 
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alf wrote:
Terez wrote:
Alfie wrote:
If you want to listen to some really extraordinary interpretations of them go to YT and look for Ignaz Friedman. His Mazurkas are one of a kind and in my opinion he gives a possible account of that famous "Polish" thing you mentioned.


I'm listening to one of them now (63/3), but it seems to be straight 3 also.


Persevere, not all the Mazurkas are born equal. Some are more "Polish" than others. Try this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2s9BJBwlv0

Yeah, that's more like what Zimerman did in the concerto.

Alfie, master of diplomacy, wrote:
Juufie, you're right, Rubinstein sounds much more polished than Friedman.

:lol:

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:07 pm 
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I have recently begun to seriously study/listen to Rubinstein's playing of the mazurkas. And trying to imitate him the best I can - something that is impossible to get perfected, but it has helped me, anyway.

But doesn't Zimerman look a lot like Chopin! I'm thinking body-double with that earlier video.

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"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:26 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
[...]
But doesn't Zimerman look a lot like Chopin! I'm thinking body-double with that earlier video.


:lol:

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