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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:04 pm 
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one more thing: about when the forum is at dead times. Why can't we bring up old topics, old discussions from old threads? Someone new would have a different viewpoint, and we ourselves may have since learned something new to contribute. So I say that when someone asks about something that was talked about in the past, we don't say something like, "that's an old topic. Go back and read it yourself." Let the conversation begin, again, and we may learn something new.

Okay, Pete. Wow to your Etude. It sounds perfectly ready to me too. Great job.
The nocturne- It is a bit on the slow side, but your touch is nice and delicate but comes down with a great booming hand on the ff. Heard some 'interesting' things pop out on the third to last line. :) But the last two lines to me were absolutely perfect. I see that you play your trills starting on the upper note. I always play this starting on the lower note, which I'm not really sure why I do that - someone must have taught that to me - so I'm used to hearing it. Is it more common to do it your way?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:25 pm 
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MindenBlues wrote:
To Pete (PJF):
In both your 9/2 and 10/7 take you show very musical feeling to me. Especially your RH and LH are very well balanced - there are strong RH melody parts but also important LH bass notes come to their right.
If you say that the etude is not nearly where you want it to be, I only can say that musically speaking you are already very good here, technical wise too. After a look in the score I also can follow that the RH part must be much difficultier as the already very difficult 10/1 etude.
Regarding nocturne I can imagine that with a slightly faster tempo the melody line is more connected. If the parts with the RH fast runs need a stronger slow down that way, that would be ok too. Just my subjective opinion. You are a very sensitive player, with very good technique. I appreciate it that you never put that technical part in the foreground, also and especially if it is a Chopin etude.


Thanks for the encouraging words Olaf.

Indeed, a faster tempo may be better for the nocturne, and the runs are in need of some work.

I balked when I first saw the score of that etude! At first, it seems impossible. After memorizing it (one must memorize it to be able to play it) the main technical problem is finding a release mechanism after each sixth, without one the hand rapidly seizes in a futile attempt to get to the next third. A quick snapping motion of the forearm driven by the triceps does the trick.

When it comes to the etudes, I try to always first approach them from a musical point of view. I'll never understand a purely technical interpretation of Chopin's Etudes; what would be the point?

For an impromptu recording, my performance isn't bad but still I can improve it in terms of accuracy and LH voicing, also I need to stabilize the tempo. I'm really close to nailing it. :)

Thanks for the jump-start, Monica.

Pete :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:41 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
one more thing: about when the forum is at dead times. Why can't we bring up old topics, old discussions from old threads? Someone new would have a different viewpoint, and we ourselves may have since learned something new to contribute. So I say that when someone asks about something that was talked about in the past, we don't say something like, "that's an old topic. Go back and read it yourself." Let the conversation begin, again, and we may learn something new.


I couldn't agree more.

pianolady wrote:
Okay, Pete. Wow to your Etude. It sounds perfectly ready to me too. Great job.
The nocturne- It is a bit on the slow side, but your touch is nice and delicate but comes down with a great booming hand on the ff. Heard some 'interesting' things pop out on the third to last line. :) But the last two lines to me were absolutely perfect. I see that you play your trills starting on the upper note. I always play this starting on the lower note, which I'm not really sure why I do that - someone must have taught that to me - so I'm used to hearing it. Is it more common to do it your way?


I read the nocturne for an impromptu recording. Yes, there are a few odd moments and I agree the tempo should be faster. I think I'll post this one along with my re-do of the Nocturne in C-sharp minor, Op. Posth.

According to his students, Chopin usually began trills on the upper note. In the event of an appoggiatura, the starting note of the trill is determined by what will best maintain the legato.

I'm relieved about my rendition of the etude. Overall it's fairly solid but the middle section is a bit shakey at times. I've done so much work on it, it's VERY nice to have the final product in sight!

Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:35 pm 
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PJF, I agree with everyone (including yourself) that you're on the home stretch with this etude and that it sounds like real music and not just an exercise. Must have been a lot of work, indeed. Looking forward to the end result.

Here's a snippet of what I've been working on a few hours per week. Obviously nowhere near ready, but man, is it fun.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:08 pm 
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Pete: Great job on that absolutely fiendish Etude. Once you have found and implemeted the 'trick' it may not be that bad, but until then it is a real killer. Very nicely done especially the phrasing and voicing in the middle partm and the unusual (but exciting and effective) step up towards the ending.
The Nocturne is full of clonkers and rather too slow, but very sensitively done.

Amitai : Yes you are getting there with that Danza Festiva. It is a great piece if perhaps a bit on the long side - you need great stamina and determination. I'll be interested to hear how you will hande that great climax leading to the recapitulation.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:33 pm 
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Thanks Chris. I know, the nocturne was full of BS. After this particular topic dies down, I'll remove these temp recordings.

The etude is one piece that is even harder than it looks on paper! Once I get the piece up to snuff, I'll make a final submission. (I want to be able to clearly hear every single note). I think I pushed the tempo too much at the end, because right at the last 4 bars I got a cramp in my pinkie muscle. Playing it at full tempo is like running a 4:15 mile; it's humanly possible for the modestly talented, but just barely!

I'll keep on keepin' on. In a few years, I think I might have the complete set of Op10 and Op25 recorded. Opus 10/1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 12. I've nearly mastered these and will be recorded before July

Beethoven is on the way, too.

Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:39 pm 
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schmonz wrote:
PJF, I agree with everyone (including yourself) that you're on the home stretch with this etude and that it sounds like real music and not just an exercise. Must have been a lot of work, indeed. Looking forward to the end result.

Here's a snippet of what I've been working on a few hours per week. Obviously nowhere near ready, but man, is it fun.


Yeah, that etude nearly made me lose my mind; it's infernal.

It sounded fun to play! You are a very powerful pianist. What instrument did you use?


Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:40 pm 
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schmonz wrote:

Here's a snippet of what I've been working on a few hours per week. Obviously nowhere near ready, but man, is it fun.


Wow. That sounds hard. Looking forward to the final result. btw - who is it? ( :oops: very embarrassed because I really don't know.)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:12 pm 
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Pete: heh, "powerful." I can with very little effort play too loud, if that's what you mean. :-) This was on a biggish baby grand Steinway with the heavy protective fabric case left on (it's a reverberant room in a public area, didn't want to bother people too much), with just the lid flipped back for access to the music stand. I'm a college student so I takes my pianos where I finds 'em, and this is a pretty good one even when clammed up like that.

Monica: don't be embarrassed, it's not a terribly well known piece... but if you'd guessed this was a continuation of my obsession with Medtner, you'd have been right. :-) Everything fits the hands very comfortably (a Medtner trademark) but playing the whole thing correctly, musically, and fast enough will test my limits. And BTW, that snippet is only about half of the piece!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:18 am 
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MindenBlues wrote:
I would find it extreme woeful, if you would decline a Cortot played Chopin prelude (excuse for the hypothesis) from putting up to the site because of some wrong notes and slips. Because still today there are Cortot lovers who enjoy his art despite that slips or wrong notes.

I have never refused a recording because of some slips or wrong notes. But I would point them out regardless of the pianists's name, fame, or age. Just being objective.

As for Cortot, his playing was of course of a very high level, and if perhaps not technically infallible, certainly not bad. But I believe he has made some recordings that fall way below any technical standards, and he only got away with it because he was Cortot and could weep so beautifully :D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:03 am 
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techneut wrote:
I have never refused a recording because of some slips or wrong notes. But I would point them out regardless of the pianists's name, fame, or age. Just being objective.


I find it problematic to reduce a judgement of a recording more or less to the counting of slips or wrong notes. I don't say that you do so, but the scope of beeing "objective" tends to go in that direction instead giving other musical criteria - like voicing and so on equal weight. The problem is maybe, those criteria can't be really "objective", they can't be measured. Nevertheless they are soooo important. Because they can turn a "midi-like" shreddered piece without slips or wrong notes (but musical worthless) into real art. With art I mean something what touches the soul and heart of a listener, not only the brain.

techneut wrote:
As for Cortot, his playing was of course of a very high level, and if perhaps not technically infallible, certainly not bad. But I believe he has made some recordings that fall way below any technical standards, and he only got away with it because he was Cortot and could weep so beautifully :D


Yes, he could weep beautifully - weep and cry and whisper and shout. This is already very much in my opinion, and even with his occasional slips and wrong notes he still has his admirers, after all the years and despite that bad old recording technology. To fully right, so I see it.

That only to the danger I see in pointing to slips or wrong notes in particular . It tends to come in the foreground as if it is the most important thing. It is not in my opinion. Other things which are not right or wrong, but are liked or disliked by listeners, get in the background, although having equal importance, if not more.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:27 am 
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I could not agree more :D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:56 am 
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Pianolady, you really got us all posting a lot more. Perhaps that was the intention of this topic? :D
It is at least proven that many people sneaks around a lot on the forum.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:26 am 
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robert wrote:
Pianolady, you really got us all posting a lot more. Perhaps that was the intention of this topic? :D
It is at least proven that many people sneaks around a lot on the forum.

Yes and in the user list I see that we have a great many lurkers (people who read but never or seldom post).

But I guess I was being a bit pessimistic there. With respect to postings, this place used to be a lot more lively, but on the good side, all people we have now are serious and committed (and busy with practising :wink: ).

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:39 pm 
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Survival of the fittest. :wink:

Pete


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