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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:51 pm 
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richard66 wrote:
Yes, but bear in mind that in many countries calling a woman a hen is paramout to calling her something else and might result it violence if any male relatives are around.
My goodness, I never thought of that! :oops: No doubt those countries include Italy and the Netherlands...


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Ask Luis about hens and see what he says.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:42 am 
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Just listened to these recordings, and they do indeed sound like bitches to play... I do agree with the others that the etude lacks the sort of flow that it sounds like it should have, coming across as laboured, especially the end from (1:40+ to 1:50), though it is technically accurate. I do think you did the section from 1:10-1:30 (roughly) well, however. But they sound like surmountable problems, do try your best over short bursts of time maybe.

Does the prelude have a nickname ("Hades")? It definitely sounds like it needs more fire and brimstone, especially the octave-apart runs which need to sound bigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:07 am 
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rainer wrote:
richard66 wrote:
Yes, but bear in mind that in many countries calling a woman a hen is paramout to calling her something else and might result it violence if any male relatives are around.
My goodness, I never thought of that! :oops: No doubt those countries include Italy and the Netherlands...


I shall tell you one: A Salzburg farmer I know once called a Brazilian girl whom he liked, a cow, saying that in his part of the world it was a compliment. It took a long time for her to get over it.

There was also the husband who was taken to court because he complained that he was hen-pecked by his wife. And that was in the States. Maybe it it was the NAPH who did it, I do not know.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Affinity wrote:
Just listened to these recordings, and they do indeed sound like bitches to play... I do agree with the others that the etude lacks the sort of flow that it sounds like it should have, coming across as laboured, especially the end from (1:40+ to 1:50), though it is technically accurate. I do think you did the section from 1:10-1:30 (roughly) well, however. But they sound like surmountable problems, do try your best over short bursts of time maybe.

Does the prelude have a nickname ("Hades")? It definitely sounds like it needs more fire and brimstone, especially the octave-apart runs which need to sound bigger.


Thank you for listening, Jonathan. I practiced both pieces again last night and think that I will re-record both pieces over the weekend.

"Hades" is perfect for today!
Happy Halloween everybody!!

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Hi Monica,

I listened to both your Chopin Prelude and the Etude.

I think you play these very well, the Prelude I think you play very well, your phrasing seems controlled and the "Mannheim Rocket" descending arpeggio at the end sounded quite crisp :)

The Etude sounds like a real finger-twister. You play it well. I like your IMO 'restrained' style serves you here. You said you have trouble getting the ornaments crisp. I think they sound crisp, though perhaps not as isolated, as with a different type of piece, which is not so polyphonic. At the risk of it being even harder to play, perhaps slow down the tempo a few tics to get the ornaments crisper. Of course that might make it sound metronomic... :x I can't imagine learning this piece. The harmonic rhythm is very brisk, with some modulations so quick as to change by the beat! I don't have the score but just based on what I heard it sounds like the melody is not only in the top voice but also the alto. The harmony at :30 sounds like a F Minor goes to F# Major goes to Ab Minor and a few passing chords in between all within something like 8 beats? :shock: it sounds nice, but hard to play up to speed so I applaud you :)

Enjoyed hearing these. This repertoire suits you well :P

Riley

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:03 am 
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Thank you, Riley! And happy birthday too!! :D

I'm glad you think these two are okay. However, I just re-recorded them both today. I hope someone will listen to them and tell me if they are improved or if it is my imagination. Of course, they still are not perfect, but I think I got them a little better.

Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etudes No. 3 in D-flat Major

Chopin - Op.28 no.18, Prelude in F minor

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:39 am 
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Hi Monica, I listened to the new versions.

The prelude - I still don't think it's "big" and angry enough, but that I guess is a matter of interpretation, rather than something concrete being wrong.

The etude - definitely improved! Is it a touch faster? I'm not sure. It seems to have more of a lilting dance feel about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Really great improvements for both pieces! The etude is definitely much less labored-sounding than your previous recording, and it flows pretty well. Like the above poster I still think your prelude is still too modest sounding, but I find your new recording more convincing than your previous one. The chords at 0:42-ish sound a bit too thin though, especially the first one, which I'm not sure if it is part of the previous phrase or not. A crescendo there might work. The climax is quite delightful however...

Again, congratulations on such a great improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm 
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andrew wrote:
Hi Monica, I listened to the new versions.

The prelude - I still don't think it's "big" and angry enough, but that I guess is a matter of interpretation, rather than something concrete being wrong.

The etude - definitely improved! Is it a touch faster? I'm not sure. It seems to have more of a lilting dance feel about it.


Hi Andrew. I'm so glad to see you and that you didn't write me off after my dumb post. :D
Anyway, the prelude - I recorded it right after I recorded the etude and the etude makes my RH hurt a lot. My hand felt like it was on fire while recording the prelude. But even so, I guess I am a weakling; this is the biggest sound I can make. Maybe you can just turn up your speakers? :)

The etude - yes, it is 20 seconds faster than my previous version. I'm glad to know that it sounds better now.

Affinity wrote:
Really great improvements for both pieces! The etude is definitely much less labored-sounding than your previous recording, and it flows pretty well. Like the above poster I still think your prelude is still too modest sounding, but I find your new recording more convincing than your previous one. The chords at 0:42-ish sound a bit too thin though, especially the first one, which I'm not sure if it is part of the previous phrase or not. A crescendo there might work. The climax is quite delightful however...

Again, congratulations on such a great improvement.


Thank you, Jonathan. I think some of those chords just came down differently than I had planned. But since this version came off with not too many slips, I stuck with this one. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:24 pm 
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These are surely a LOT better than the previous ones. For minor niggling, in the etude you mostly lose the crisp staccato when the other voices come in. Easier said than done, I know. The prelude is still a little too timid, and the unisono passages are a bit choppy.
But all in all, these are pretty convincing (which I would not say about the first versions).

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:11 pm 
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techneut wrote:
These are surely a LOT better than the previous ones. For minor niggling, in the etude you mostly lose the crisp staccato when the other voices come in. Easier said than done, I know. The prelude is still a little too timid, and the unisono passages are a bit choppy.


Thank you, Chris. Yes, I heard some choppy too. I shouldn't have recorded it after the etude. Maybe I'll have one more go at it next week when I'm stronger.

techneut wrote:
But all in all, these are pretty convincing (which I would not say about the first versions).

Why? What were you afraid of? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Well well, the Etude now actually like Chopin. A great impovement. I just do not like this talk of hands hurting: that is not at all good. I have played my share of hair-raising stuff and my hand has never hurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:03 pm 
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richard66 wrote:
Well well, the Etude now actually like Chopin. A great impovement. I just do not like this talk of hands hurting: that is not at all good. I have played my share of hair-raising stuff and my hand has never hurt.

Thank you, Richard.
It's just the same old thing - tendonitis that I've been dealing with for years now. This particular piece hurt my RH a lot because of all the 9th intervals. There's one spot near the end that was extremely hard for me to land correctly, so I had to practice it a hundred times.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:37 am 
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Well, this was a confusing stream. I'd been away for a couple of weeks (the past week due to that storm) and listened to two recordings which made sense only after reading the entire message stream (since the recordings had been reposted).

Anyway, yes, the Etude sounds fine, and I don't know what it sounded like before. And thank you for adding to the Society's repertoire.
Enough has been said about the Prelude. Due to cowardice, I've never learned the piece and don't feel like critiquing the work of someone braver than me!

Tendonitis - I'm sure you already know to use heat therapy? The beanbag you throw in the microwave and then wrap around whatever (in my case it's elbows and an injured shoulder)?? In a younger person it can be a result of an unrelaxed approach to the keyboard. In someone my age, my doctor says "You're simply wearing out, my friend." Then there's injuries... (shoveling snow without switching arms occasionally will do it).

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:08 am 
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Hi Monica,

I think these two numbers sound quite well played. In the prelude you feature the wonderful rhythmic drive. Maybe just a tad more power is needed there to make it even more declarative. The etude sounds like a tricky one to play given the different touches required in the RH--legato, staccato, slurs, etc. You articulate it all convincingly in my opinion. I enjoyed hearing both.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:53 am 
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StuKautsch wrote:
Tendonitis - I'm sure you already know to use heat therapy? The beanbag you throw in the microwave and then wrap around whatever (in my case it's elbows and an injured shoulder)?? In a younger person it can be a result of an unrelaxed approach to the keyboard. In someone my age, my doctor says "You're simply wearing out, my friend." Then there's injuries... (shoveling snow without switching arms occasionally will do it).


Time to visit a new medicine man, if you ask me.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:55 am 
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pianolady wrote:
It's just the same old thing - tendonitis that I've been dealing with for years now. This particular piece hurt my RH a lot because of all the 9th intervals. There's one spot near the end that was extremely hard for me to land correctly, so I had to practice it a hundred times.
Given a condition like this, I'd avoid pieces that so specifically go against the grain.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:01 am 
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pianolady wrote:
richard66 wrote:
Well well, the Etude now actually like Chopin. A great impovement. I just do not like this talk of hands hurting: that is not at all good. I have played my share of hair-raising stuff and my hand has never hurt.

Thank you, Richard.
It's just the same old thing - tendonitis that I've been dealing with for years now. This particular piece hurt my RH a lot because of all the 9th intervals. There's one spot near the end that was extremely hard for me to land correctly, so I had to practice it a hundred times.


There must be something wrong with your technique. You were so forward when you thought the keys on my old groaner were uneven that I am surprised you let this pass, unless, of course, this tendonitis is not related to the piano. I had something on the top joint of the right pinky which was not related to playing, as it came at a time I was not too active practising and then would not hurt when playing. It has since vanished and all the time I have played two or three hours a day.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:33 pm 
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StuKautsch wrote:
Well, this was a confusing stream. I'd been away for a couple of weeks (the past week due to that storm) and listened to two recordings which made sense only after reading the entire message stream (since the recordings had been reposted).

Anyway, yes, the Etude sounds fine, and I don't know what it sounded like before. And thank you for adding to the Society's repertoire.
Enough has been said about the Prelude. Due to cowardice, I've never learned the piece and don't feel like critiquing the work of someone braver than me!

Tendonitis - I'm sure you already know to use heat therapy? The beanbag you throw in the microwave and then wrap around whatever (in my case it's elbows and an injured shoulder)?? In a younger person it can be a result of an unrelaxed approach to the keyboard. In someone my age, my doctor says "You're simply wearing out, my friend." Then there's injuries... (shoveling snow without switching arms occasionally will do it).


Thank you for listening, Stewart. And OMG, I didn't realize you were in New Jersey....what a terrible mess; I feel sorry for everybody on the east coast. I hope your power is on?

Rachfan wrote:
Hi Monica,
I think these two numbers sound quite well played. In the prelude you feature the wonderful rhythmic drive. Maybe just a tad more power is needed there to make it even more declarative. The etude sounds like a tricky one to play given the different touches required in the RH--legato, staccato, slurs, etc. You articulate it all convincingly in my opinion. I enjoyed hearing both.
David


Thank you for listening, David. I guess I should eat my Wheaties before I attempt this one again.... :)

techneut wrote:
Given a condition like this, I'd avoid pieces that so specifically go against the grain.

I know.....I was just trying to find something Chopin that we didn't already have and felt I could play this one. It wasn't so bad at first because I was just casually playing through it. The trouble started when I got serious with it.

richard66 wrote:
There must be something wrong with your technique. You were so forward when you thought the keys on my old groaner were uneven that I am surprised you let this pass, unless, of course, this tendonitis is not related to the piano. I had something on the top joint of the right pinky which was not related to playing, as it came at a time I was not too active practising and then would not hurt when playing. It has since vanished and all the time I have played two or three hours a day.


My piano is actually very well balanced. That's one of the reasons I bought it in the first place. The problem is definitely my technique. I am too tense. My last piano teacher often touched my shoulder when I was playing to remind me to relax.

But you know....talking about what hurts us.... the thing that hurts my wrists the most is painting a wall. Something about that motion just kills me. I can't paint a wall anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:44 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
The trouble started when I got serious with it.
Doesn't it always :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm 
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I was just reading an article about it:

http://www.pianomap.com/injuries/index.html

Four of the points there are things that I was taught:

forearm parallel to the keys
curved and not curled or straight fingers
never use wrist movement to play a note
never play a black key with the thumb or pinky if another fingering is available (that is, avoid twisting the hand).

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Last edited by richard66 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:28 pm 
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techneut wrote:
pianolady wrote:
The trouble started when I got serious with it.
Doesn't it always :roll:

Image


:P


richard66 wrote:
I was just reading an article about it:
http://www.pianomap.com/injuries/index.html
Thank you for the link, Richard. I'll read it soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Hi Monica,
I just listened to your recordings and commend you for your attempts. I thought the etude was delightful, if perhaps under tempo, but generally well executed and voiced -- and quite musical. The prelude did not achieve the same level as the etude for me (and for you apparently). I think that both Andrew and Joe gave you great remarks. Perhaps while you give the works time to simmer, you could continue to play them mentally with score review; this may also allow you to discover some layers/levels of the pieces that you had not seen yet. I am amazed at how much I continue to discover years later in works that I had programmed in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:54 am 
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Hi Eddy, and thank you for listening. I don't think I will work on the etude anymore because it hurts my hands too much. I have the prelude memorized though, so I might as well video-record it probably next weekend. I know it's not to everyone's liking (my playing it), but at least I can sort of get it out of my system then.

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:44 pm 
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this etude is nicely played, Monica, mas it's a pitty that you didn't record the most beautiful Ab major one. =D

and you're crazy to play those crazy Chopin preludes I've always been purposely away. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:52 am 
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Thank you, Luis. I'm not sure what mas means, but I am currently working on the one in A-flat.
I'm not sure what to do about this prelude. Some days it goes pretty well, and then the next day it doesn't. I still have a goal to video-record it....just have to catch a good day. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:58 pm 
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'mas' = 'BUT', in portuguese.

Can't believe I thought in portuguese while writing here. :lol:

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