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 Post subject: Re: Schumann rehash
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:42 am 
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Yes that is all true Richard. I don't like these sounds either, particularly the racket some classical guitarists make gliding over the strings (I assume that is what it is). But, unlike bad edits, these things can not really be avoided let
alone be edited out. I heard at least two very audible edits, more a jarring than a click. It is not a big deal but why not spend some effort to avoid it. Most everybody edits (except David :P ) but you don't want people to HEAR that you do do you ? I would recommend doing your post processing with decent headphones and ample volume and be
not satisfied with a cut until you really can't hear it. It takes some practicing but is worth the effort. As a bonus, it
will help you to play more clearly and accurately, because it is nigh impossibly to cut in a passage that is not played clearly and cleanly. Leaving more air between phrases is a great help here.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann rehash
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:36 pm
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
richard66 wrote:
but how does one know if there is a click or not after you cut?
In general, there will always be a click at a cut, unless it is made where there is absolute silence, which is as rare as hen's teeth. Even if you're splicing together two sections of hiss, you will get a click where there is a discontinuity in the hiss waveform.
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One listens. If listening at normal levels with normal equipment one detects no click
There will always be other people with abnormal (better) equipment. Just because you can't hear clicks, don't assume no-one else will either.
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I do not believe one is going to comb though a whole recording with earphones and the volume set at maximum in order to find clicks.
As the person who has made the cuts, you don't need to go and find the clicks, you already know where they are (there is one at every join). What you could do is to invoke the editor's repair feature as a matter of routine around the few samples either side of each join.

Or instead of listening for a click (which is unreliable), it's worth looking for it (yes, with your eyes). If, like Audacity, which I use, your editor lets you switch the display from waveform to spectrum, you will see a spike in the spectrum at the click. Unfortunately the spikes are so narrow that this trick can only be used to find the exact location of a click when you already know the approximate location. It's not suitable for scanning a whole recording to look for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Schumann rehash
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Richard, the problem must be your editing program. Which one do you use? When I first started, I was using a program that I got off the Internet for free. I can't remember the name...something like Wavelab. I thought it was pretty good, except it was extremely hard to made good cuts. I got those terrible clicks often. I just assumed that all programs would give the same result, until I tried a different one. The program I use now is sooooo much better. I hardly every have to deal with clicks anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann rehash
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:42 pm 
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I am using Audacity, but the beta version. Somethings it does quite nicely. I even manage to glue together things fished from the Internet in two pieces into one seemless one. Let us face it: the problem here is not editing, but playing. If one runthough comes out perfect there is no editing involved, as was the case with the Camilleri piece.

While I am perfectly capable of playing though this piece without a single error and therefore without need for editing, as soon as the recorder is on all sorts of errors and hesitations come up, compounded with yelling in the street, chairs creaking, taps being opened and a whole series of external noises. The other day I came out with a recording 18' long of this very piece and not a single time did it come out perfect. At times I had to discard a whole runthrough because of a missing note (finger on the key but note not played.). Before you say I do not have it practised enough I will tell you the errors are always different ones. It is the idea that no error can occur that makes errors occur, if you understand what I mean. Of course a recording has to be much more exacting than a performance and all recordings on the site must be of high standard indeed and things which at a performance might only raise an eyebrow and soon be forgotten cannot be tolerated on a recording, where it will be heard again and again.

As for the point Rainer raises, the pause at the end of A and B are not hesitations, but a breaths. That these breaths are too long and sound like hesitations is another matter and should, as you say, be addressed. Let me see how to deal with this. The reason it is slow? Because for some reason I feel it at that speed. Of course your comment that it is pointless to feel without transmitting these feelings is right on the nail. A great artist is not one who is moved, but one who is capable of moving others.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann rehash
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:36 pm
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
richard66 wrote:
At times I had to discard a whole runthrough because of a missing note (finger on the key but note not played.). Before you say I do not have it practised enough I will tell you the errors are always different ones. It is the idea that no error can occur that makes errors occur, if you understand what I mean.
I understand what you mean only too well. The more you want it to be perfect, the more likely it is that something will go wrong. It's a slightly different version of stage fright. Over time, I have reached the point at which I don't worry so much when playing in front of others. As a result of less worry, I make fewer mistakes, resulting in even less worry. It's a virtuous circle. With recording, I have not reached that stage yet, its circle is still vicious. I make more mistakes. I worry more. But I've only been playing around with a recorder for a couple of months. Still a way to go before I dare submit my first recordings here!
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Of course a recording has to be much more exacting than a performance and all recordings on the site must be of high standard indeed and things which at a performance might only raise an eyebrow and soon be forgotten cannot be tolerated on a recording, where it will be heard again and again.
The spectre of all those sheep in wolves clothing poised to criticise your recording to shreds isn't exactly going to help your confidence either, but at least you can throw a recording away before they see it, if you think it isn't good enough. One psychological trick which might help to take the worry out of recording is to get away from the conscious decision that "now I'm starting a recording". This can be done by simply having the recorder on all the time while practising, and to incorporate complete runthroughs into the practice sessions as a matter of routine. Then if one of those runthroughs turns out to be reasonably good, then you have your recording, without really having worried about it!

Will it work? I don't know, I must try it. The trouble with trying to fool yourself is that you know you're doing it, and there's a part of you which is going to damn well resist every attempt to be fooled, even when (or perhaps especially when) it's yourself that's trying to do the fooling.


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 Post subject: Re: Schumann rehash
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:54 pm 
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rainer wrote:
I understand what you mean only too well. The more you want it to be perfect, the more likely it is that something will go wrong. It's a slightly different version of stage fright. Over time, I have reached the point at which I don't worry so much when playing in front of others. As a result of less worry, I make fewer mistakes, resulting in even less worry. It's a virtuous circle. With recording, I have not reached that stage yet, its circle is still vicious. I make more mistakes. I worry more. But I've only been playing around with a recorder for a couple of months. Still a way to go before I dare submit my first recordings here!


I'm still more or less a complete beginner, so a lot of my struggles are not problems with technique or musicality, but nerves. I botch lessons with my teacher sometimes just because I'm nervous. I've come up with a few little techniques that help me a lot with the mental aspect of playing, and I would definitely recommend giving them a try.

First, before even warming up with a few scales and arpeggios, I do light stretches for 5-10 minutes. The idea is to get completely at ease and remove all tension from your body. It helps me prepare mentally to play if my body is loose and relaxed. Also, stretching is just good for you, period, if you do it correctly ;)

The next thing is to know when to take a break or stop for the day. While it's tempting to keep forcing yourself to keep trying to perfect this one passage or eliminate all mistakes, your playing can spin out of control if you get too frustrated. When this happens, I step away from the piano, get some ice water/iced tea, do a few more stretches if I'm feeling really tense again, and take deep, calm breaths. Only when I'm calm do I consider going back to the piano.

Hope this helps, and good luck with future recordings :)


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