Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:15 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: my recent several works
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am
Posts: 72
I returned with a little bit, perhaps, clearer and assured style.


Debussy - Suite Bergamasque, no. 3 "Claire de Lune"

Liszt - 3 Concert Etudes S. 144 no. 3, "Un Sospiro"

Debussy - Preludes Book 1 no. 10, "La Cathédrale Engloutie"

Chopin - Nocturne in B-flat minor, Op. 9, no. 1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:13 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8530
Hi Teppei,

I'm getting ready to put up your recordings - I will for sure put up the three replacements, Debussy Claire de Lune, Debussy La cathédrale engloutie, and Liszt Un Sospiro. However, I have reservations on the Nocturne. I see you are trying to insert a certain kind of personality into the piece, but I think it's too much. The middle section seems too rushed, too severe, too explosive. Also, you change the tempo early on in the first section which doesn't feel right to me. A little nitpick - there is too much pedal on the first page on that long run with the tiny notes. Well, I'll leave this up to you: If you want it to go up, then up it shall go.

But I'm sorry to say that I cannot put up your Barcarolle. It's just not ready yet. I think you should listen to some other recordings by the professionals - get a better sense of how the piece is supposed to flow and all that....

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2003
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Kazekayou,

Over the years I studied this piece with two teachers, and performed it in auditions and recitals, so I know it very well. I also have a recording of "La Cathedrale engloutie" but not at this website.

A few suggestions:

First, far better control over dynamics is needed! The opening is marked pp, but sounds more like mp. (These parallel octaves and fourths are best played from the shoulders with still hands.)

In the development, section A1, at measure 13, it's marked pp, but you seem to be at f! You're also holding tones through the rest in the second beat there. Observe the rest!

On page 2 you maintain the tempo, which I believe is the correct approach. (I played it about MM = 69). Much has been made of the Debussy piano roll where he takes a significantly faster tempo there; however, we cannot always trust what we hear on piano rolls or old 78 rpm records. All too often recording engineers from that bygone era asked artists to speed up the tempo in places (or even to make cuts) in order to fit the piece on the roll or the record. The recording technologies back then were very limited which led to unfortunate, undesired and misleading accommodations.

At the top of page 2, it's marked pp, but you're near or at f again. The highest dynamic on that page is f, but which requires a crescendo starting at the augmentez progressivement marking half way down the page. These premature loud dynamics detract a lot from the imagery of the piece. This is the legendary Cathedral of Y's rising very slowly up through the ocean which takes time. You have it bursting all at once through the surface of the water with loud dynamics way before their time. Bear in mind that the full apparition of the cathedral does not actually occur until page 3, section A2 at the Sonore sans durete indication. Until then, it has been rising in the waters little by little. By the time you reach the peeling bells at the bottom of page 3, you're already at ff, a dynamic that is not supposed to occur for three more measures. So, you have nothing left in reserve for that--you've already spent the ff too early.

Starting in the last two measures of page 1 with the scales in the Phygian mode and continuing through nearly all of page 2, there are very long pedals which are permissible; however in the last measure of page 2, that comes to a halt. There and at the top of page 3, in the first two measures (or actually starting on the 4th beat of the last measure of page 2), the left hand, which has been secondary, now becomes primary. So in playing those descending octaves, you must pedal for clarity in the diatonic scalar passages. That means pedaling every octave separately and individually. Right now you have one glaring, continuous and unmusical blur there. You also make a mistake I made where it is marked sff in the second measure page 2, that is, playing the last two bass octaves allargando or broadening them out. As another pianist quite logically pointed out to me, we're dealing with church bells there, so an allargando would be quite improbable. I believe he had a good point, and there should be no pause between those last two octaves.

Once you're at section A2 at the Sonore sans durete, your pedaling is not to best advantage. You're dealing with several things there. One is to produce full sonorities, which you do well. But you also need two types of pedaling there. For each pedal point (sometimes called organ points) on the contra-low C's, you should take those with the middle, that is, the sonstenuto pedal, using the left foot, and hold it down until the contra-low C is next sounded, whereby you again take it in the sostenuto and hold it down again until the next one. Pedaling the parallel triad chords there also needs a completely different technique with the damper (or loud or right) pedal. What works best there are partial damper pedal changes which we call half-pedal releases. Notice that the first chord in C in the right hand is consonant with the dominant G chord two chords away, but they are separated by a dissonant D chord in between. So, after the sostenuto pedal has caught the very low pedal point, you would depress the damper pedal in a syncopated pedal, ease the pedal up a bit to "spill" some of the C tonality with its overtones, play the D chord, release the pedal a bit more to spill the D, and finally allow the G chord to sound. That will give more clarity to the intervening D chord. Same technique with the following F, E and D chords, that is, spilling some of the E tonality through a half pedal release to manage the dissonance between the consonant F and D tones. As it stands, you have one huge blur throughout the parallel triads. It's really essential to pedal for clarity there with the method I've described.

Page 3 bottom, the transition featuring the major 2nds: The measure just before the last measure--you completely neglected to play it. Also, that line starts at p, then piu (or more) p, pp, piu pp, and the very last G# bass octave logically should be ppp given the long diminuendo there. To me you seem to play the whole line at mf. You really need to effect the diminuendo there.

Page 4: Here again, the dynamic is pp, but it sounds like it's being bashed out at f. It needs to be way quieter! There is no f until measure 13 on this page. Once you get to measure 13, you need to play the bass grace note, contra-G# and do an upward LH leap to play its next chord. You're now playing the grace note, then both the LH chord and the RH chord are being appegiated or rolled. It's not written that way in the score. (I'm looking at the Durand Edition which was the first edition.) The grace note should be played followed by solid chords in both hands in rhythm.

Page 4, measure 19: Look closely at the second half-note chord in the measure. You're playing it as it there were a bass clef in front of it, but in the preceding measure, the G clef has returned. So it's just a misread.

Last page, recapitulation: You're voicing the chords with the RH thumb which is correct. Good! But back to your nemesis again, dynamics. When you tapered off the preceding page, you were at pp. I thought, "Halaluja!" But then as soon as the right hand chords came it, it was back to loudness. Note that Debussy marks that page pp. The cathedral is now sinking and disappearing under the waves. All is anticlimactic now. The whole atmosphere has become subdued. You do a fine job with the left hand, keeping it in the background at ppp while playing it legatissimo to produce a quiet, tranquil effect as the cathedral gently settles on the bottom.

In the last line of the last page, the coda and reprise of section A1: Do not hesitate at all between the last chord of measure and the first chord of the next. Same with the last chord of the second measure approaching the first chord of the third measure. Keep it all moving. In the third measure the second chord is all whole notes. Be sure to hold them for full value. Right now you're rushing through the chord.

The important thing here is that Debussy's music is impressionistic and deals with imagery and atmospheric effects. Much of it has to be managed very quietly. If most of the playing is blaring loud dynamics, there is no way to create the atmospherics of the music. Watching the dynamics very carefully is key in order to succeed with this piece.

A tip: If you play this in a recital, "play" the rests after the C cadence at the very end. To do that, lift your hands slightly, be looking down at them with your eyes (do not look at the audience), and very slowly raise them off the keyboard and then very slowly withdraw them. That cues and prevents the audience from applauding too soon and breaking the magic spell of the music.

l hope this is helpful.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Last edited by Rachfan on Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:31 pm, edited 10 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am
Posts: 72
Dear Pianolady,
Thank you for your detailed cirtic. Regarding Chopin' Nocturn I wanted to remove the coventional interpretation of
this sentimetal piece. I might be too masculine for you, but I will transform it according to my taste into an austere art of iron will, Druchdrignlichkiet. I dislike flowerlike, plump and at the same time frail Chopin. Yet I like Chopin. I am afraid of if your image of Chopin were a little bit consevative. About the pedal I must consider once more, thank you very much for your advice! Regarding Barcarolle I cannot appreciate any kind of interpretations ever recorded. This is the reason why I try it. Our images of Chopin are really very diffirent.


Last edited by Kazekayou on Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am
Posts: 72
Dear David,
Thank you for your kind advice!
I haven't been having any kind of teacher and any kind of accademic training behind me. This is a cheap, autodidactic result.
So, often I neglect and ignore scores. If you cannot find a coherence in my works, then it means I failed. Scores are for me more material than the untouchable sanctuary. I was originally only a music lover and appreciate some conductors like Mitropoulos, Dobrowen and Freitas-Branco etc. Constructing by myself Audo eqeuipements since long time in order to verify such kind of old but vivid mono recordings. Only rarely I find agreeable Pianists like Pugno and little bit of Farnadi. This is the reason why I began to deal with piano. Thank you for your precious advice. I will read it later attentively and study from it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2003
Location: U.S.A.
Hi kazekayou,

I'm glad you found my critique useful. That is the spirit in which I meant it.

Dmitri Metropoulos! Now THERE was a conductor!!! He had many connections here in the U.S. His debut was with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. He then spent time as conductor of the Minneapolis Orchestra. Later he became the principal conductor of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, and still later became an opera conductor, conducting the Metropolitan Opera in New York City. He was also in his time a champion of Gustav Mahler. One of his greatest recordings, I believe, was Shostakovich's 10th Symphony.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am
Posts: 72
Dear David
Music without pain is for me nothing. If one seeks after a pleasent consolation, one sould abandon music.
This world is full of pain. And music too isn't excluded. I guess that he too thus thought.
In the end American people expelled him from thier country. I don't think that he has an American taste.
Among Mahler's sym. I appreciate only 6th sym. I prefer his Beethoven's 3. 6. 9 sym. prokofiev's Scythian Suite
and especially Franck' sym. But the last ones sound in CD is awful with which one can get only a wrong image about him.


Last edited by Kazekayou on Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am
Posts: 72
Dear Pianolady
I hope, you read an article written by Edmund Burke's "The Sublime and Beautiful" Then my Chopin's interpretation might be a little bit acceptable for you. I am not interested in food and erotisism which belong to all in the end beauty.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:08 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8530
hmmm...I do not understand some things you say. Yes, we do have a great difference in how we like our Chopin. That is certainly an interesting thing about music in general. But I believe one should at least try to pay attention to all markings, which brings me to one more little nitpick in your recording here: There are many places marked pp or ppp and I hear no softening in your music at all in these places. And I really don't think a Chopin nocturne should be rendered into something 'masculine'. That makes no sense to me. Chopin can certainly bring on the 'big guns' in his nocturnes when he wants to - for example the op. 27, no. 1 or Op. 15, no. 1. But then you need the very soft delicate parts to offset all that - truly make the music more interesting and oh so beautiful! Well, that's okay - I've just now put up your three replacement files as well as the nocturne. There are some beautiful parts in your version here - I like a more refined and reserved Chopin, that's all.... :)

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am
Posts: 72
Dear Pianolady,
When I don’t observe some markings the composers intentionally wrote in, then it might be an illegal activity against music world. I would like ask myself: What is music? Originally music was nothing but improvisation. With the invention of sheet it was artificially programmed being detached from natural process of soul. Then what is written on scores, the music, went beyond the real time processing speed of human brain. So, practicing became indispensable. At this stage music became inevitably an unnatural art. But even in 19th century when a composer, like Liszt played, his works, he played every time differently from what he composed leaving himself to take music’s own course. The markings might be very essential and fundamental just at the moment when it was composed, but might be one solution among many in passing time. If markings are made by God, then I absolutely respect them. But sometimes the music seems to demand me against markings.
Regarding “big gun” I would like to say a little bid. In the Japanese history we have Heian period in which more than 250 years there wasn’t any kind of capital punishment. Even ladies went out in the night into city in order to appreciate the beauty of the moon light. Women had also the right of inheritance. Women poets flourished. Nobody wore gold and jewelry to show off. I am proud of having such kind of era in our history. I dislike any kind of weapon. I neither kill nor let kill nor eat any kind of animal. I don’t want to give pain to whom who can suffer. If you imagine a gun in my music then you might be contaminated by American culture in which everybody can carry it and use it. Sorry a little bit too much! This kind of my aggressiveness towards you might come out even in my music.
:wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:26 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9600
Location: Netherlands
I listened to the Barcarolle. Technically, not at all a bad performance. Though there are some things to improve, I would not say that it's not ready yet. You have clearly thought about the piece, and practiced it well. I heard many nice things, but just as many that are not so nice, like strange accents and phrasing, rushed loops, etc. I thought I heard some bad cuts and even notes or bars missing (though I could be wrong), as well as some (nearly) inaudible notes. What I most disliked was the harsh, metronomic pounding in the central climax and (to a lesser extent) in the coda. The last page however you handle very well, except the closing bars which seem too subdued and apologetic. You have a tendency to become a bit aggressive and inarticulate whenever Chopin writes a virtuoso flourish. It is better to take your time for these things and make them sing.
Lastly, there are too many extraneous noises (some strange thumping sounds) to make this a good listening experience. You should try to avoid that somehow. All in all, a mixed bag. But certainly, a good first 'attempt' :)

So you are on a mission to record a Barcarolle unlike anybody else's, because you can not abide any one pianist's interpretation of the piece.
I find that strange. But I wish you luck..... there's some stiff competition out there !

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: my recent several works
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:19 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Germany
Kazekayou wrote:
..., but I will transform it according to my taste into an austere art of iron will, Druchdrignlichkiet.

If this is supposed to mean "Durchdringlichkeit" ( disregarding the question what this has to do with an "iron will" ), then I assume you're not really a professor of German literature as your bio says. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group