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 Post subject: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:09 am 
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Hi Monica,
hope, you don´t mind, that I still have opened the new thread for our four hands-project, because I just have practised on my Secondo-part. For all the others, who read this: Monica and me, we are going to record the arrangement of Haydns "Symphony of Farewell" in f-sharp-minor, no. 45, by Hugo Ulrich for piano four hands. The score can be found at imslp.org. If you are interested in the beginning of the planning of that project, you could read in Monicas "Complete Chopin Mazurkas"-thread, please. We decided to open an extra thread for that project.

Monica, I suggest a tempo of nearly 58-60 (better 58) for a three quarter bar. (dotted half note=58) What do you think?

I´m ready to play my part. I suggest you to record with 44,1 Khz in CD-quality, but totally unedited (besides cuts), that means no eq and reverb, like we always have done and to upload your file on rapidshare or another free-hoster.

I´m looking forward very much on our project :D and I´m curious, if I will be able to synchronize all well. :|

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Hi Andreas,

No, I don't mind that you started this thread. I ran out of time yesterday and could not do so myself.

A tempo marking of 58 is fine. And yes to 44.1 khz also. But so that I get this right, here are my questions:

1. Should I leave the file as a wav file?
2. Should I not add any reverb, because you will do that yourself so that we 'match up'?
3. Are we still video-recording this too? (will be very cool if it works!)
4. And if so, then should I send you the entire file (video with my Edirol audio file synced in)?
5. If we video, should we think about which side to film ourselves? Meaning - do you want my left side to face the camera, which is the way I usually record my videos because I have more room in my room that way. Or I can put my camera on the other side and film my right side, like how you record your videos. Just thinking if we want to show both the same sides of us in the video montage, or if it would be better to show us each different sides. If we do you right side, and me left side, then we can sort of face each other (not really, but if there is a way to put both videos on the screen side-by-side, then we'd be facing each other).
6. Also, what about clothes (the real important issue :lol: ) - do you want to coordinate our colors, like both wear black or red or blue...etc?
7. How soon do you want me to record my part? Since we are doing video (I think) then I have to practice a bit more so that I can go straight through without errors.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
No, I don't mind that you started this thread. I ran out of time yesterday and could not do so myself.


Don´t mention, I know, how this is.

Quote:
A tempo marking of 58 is fine. And yes to 44.1 khz also.


Fine!

Quote:
1. Should I leave the file as a wav file?


Yes, please, post it on rapidshare or on another free hoster as a wave-file, recorded with 44.1Khz, 16 bit.

Quote:
2. Should I not add any reverb, because you will do that yourself so that we 'match up'?


So it is. I need the absolute "raw", that means unedited file (the only thing you should do are the cuts, which you find to be necessary).

Quote:
3. Are we still video-recording this too? (will be very cool if it works!)


Yes, as we still have said. I would like to try out some collage/montage-techniques. :D

Quote:
4. And if so, then should I send you the entire file (video with my Edirol audio file synced in)?


Send me an only audio-file (wave, 44.1 Khz), recorded with your Edirol, and the video-tape with the original sound-track of the video-camera, please. (BTW, I also will record me with the built-in mics of my Zoom H4 for having a similar sound-quality as your Edirol.)

Quote:
5. If we video, should we think about which side to film ourselves? Meaning - do you want my left side to face the camera, which is the way I usually record my videos because I have more room in my room that way. Or I can put my camera on the other side and film my right side, like how you record your videos. Just thinking if we want to show both the same sides of us in the video montage, or if it would be better to show us each different sides. If we do you right side, and me left side, then we can sort of face each other (not really, but if there is a way to put both videos on the screen side-by-side, then we'd be facing each other).


That´s really an interesting question. If we both take our normal side-position, you from the left and me from the right, we can face us each other, if find an option like "screen splitting", which should be possible. On the other hand, if I one of us would change the side (I have not much room on the left, but I can film me also from the left side, just only in a nearer position than you normally do), may be I could try to get the two film-tracks overlay in a way, that it looks really as if we are playing four hands at one piano. I don´t really know, if that is possible. So, here is my suggestion: during the exposition and its repetition I will film me from the left (like you always do) and you go a bit nearer to your grand with your camera, so that the end of your grand can´t be seen. During the execution and reprise I will change my camera angel to my normal position.
That means, that we have to record the whole piece in exact two takes: 1. take: exposition plus repetition (me on the left, you on the left), 2. take: execution + reprise (me on the right, you on the left). For you this means, that you can also record the whole piece in one take, just me, I have to do two takes. What do you think about that?

Quote:
6. Also, what about clothes (the real important issue :lol: ) - do you want to coordinate our colors, like both wear black or red or blue...etc?


Today I carry a yellow shirt. I could keep that back and you also could carry something yellow. That´s my spontaneous idea in this moment. :lol: May be at the end we could wink both with a handkerchief, because it´s the "Symphony of Farewell"! What about this idea? Image

Quote:
7. How soon do you want me to record my part? Since we are doing video (I think) then I have to practice a bit more so that I can go straight through without errors.


For me it would be fine to finish our project during my autumn-holidays, which still rest until 24th of octobre. Do you think, it could be possible for you to record your part until the weekend, so I could record my one on monday or tuesday? (I have relative guests here from Switzerland, the parents of my wife, from thursday on until monday morning.)

So, let´s go and have fun like this dancing cat obviously has Image! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Okay, I'm all clear on the technical side of things. Just one thing - is it okay if I make my video in two sections too, even though I will not be changing the camera angle side? I'm just worried that I will not be able to go all the way through without crashing somewhere - like on the second page. I'm thinking that my first section will be from the beginning through to the second ending - those two bars right there. This means that I'll play straight through pages 1, go into page 2, then take the first ending and repeat page 1, then take second ending on page 2. So I'll stop the video section right after that, which means my second video section will begin on those three quarter notes where it's marked ff. Is this okay? And btw - that would be very neat if you can make it so we not only 'face' each other, but also look like we are actually side by side playing together like real four-hand playing.

Regarding what color clothes to wear. How about red? I only have one yellow shirt and I don't really like it that much. Red shows up very nicely on video. But I like black a lot too, and also blue.


Andreas wrote:
May be at the end we could wink both with a handkerchief, because it´s the "Symphony of Farewell"! What about this idea?
Image

Like this?

Imageonly not green or shaped like an ice cube.... :lol: And do you want to wave our handkerchief at the camera or toward the backs of our piano?

Andreas wrote:
So, let´s go and have fun like this dancing cat obviously has


You are making me laugh already! Ok, here is my contribution to our 'dance'.
Image

One more thing - I can make my video probably on Friday of this week and if not then Saturday for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:59 pm 
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Pianolady wrote:

Quote:
Okay, I'm all clear on the technical side of things. Just one thing - is it okay if I make my video in two sections too, even though I will not be changing the camera angle side? I'm just worried that I will not be able to go all the way through without crashing somewhere - like on the second page. I'm thinking that my first section will be from the beginning through to the second ending - those two bars right there. This means that I'll play straight through pages 1, go into page 2, then take the first ending and repeat page 1, then take second ending on page 2. So I'll stop the video section right after that, which means my second video section will begin on those three quarter notes where it's marked ff. Is this okay?


You may make as many cuts as you want, but in every case you have to change the camera angel when doing a cut. I have seen, that in your last video on YouTube there was a nice sweet hitch in the picture, because you forgot to change the camera angle. :wink: And I wouldn´t much love such nice sweet hitches in our common video. Image

Quote:
And btw - that would be very neat if you can make it so we not only 'face' each other, but also look like we are actually side by side playing together like real four-hand playing.


I will do my very best, lady. :lol: But I´m not sure, if it´s possible from the technical side. I´m a bit out of practise concerning video-collages in that moment, but I will come in again. :)

Quote:
Regarding what color clothes to wear. How about red? I only have one yellow shirt and I don't really like it that much. Red shows up very nicely on video. But I like black a lot too, and also blue.


O.k., so I will wear one of my red pullovers. Your suggestion comes just at the right moment, because just I have made a grease spott on my yellow sweat shirt while having eaten a sausage and it will take a while to wash it.

Quote:
Like this?

Imageonly not green or shaped like an ice cube.... :lol: And do you want to wave our handkerchief at the camera or toward the backs of our piano?


:lol: That´s really funny, Monica. What about sitting on our grand-pianos while waving our handkerchiefs? :lol: Seriously, I would like to do the winking while sitting on the piano bank.

Quote:
You are making me laugh already! Ok, here is my contribution to our 'dance'.
Image


That´s the right foretaste on our piece. Finally piano-playing is also a finger-dance! And I would also like to be as alert and light like that little ghost above.

Quote:
One more thing - I can make my video probably on Friday of this week and if not then Saturday for sure.


That´s great. Oh, I will have to look again, how to record with Zoom H4 while listening to your track, seems I have forgotten it. I remember, I managed it with the help of the multi-track recording modus. BTW, the new model of Zoom H4 is really great, it even has a remote control, so that you can sit comfortably at the piano while handling it.

Sleep well. Image

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:03 am 
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Red shirts it is!

But really Andreas, I'm surprised you ate a sausage! :shock: Sausages are fattening, however I too enjoy a nice fat, juicy bratwurst with sauerkraut and brown mustard every now and then.

Regarding my video with the 'hitch' in it. I know you have told me many times that I should change the angle when I make a cut. This time (my recent Granados video), I purposely left the camera angle in place and made the cut obvious by adding a transition. I really just wanted it to be clear that there was no fancy editing going on - that's it's just me - just plain piano playing, that's all. But don't worry - I'll change my camera angle when I make cuts on my video for our project here.

So, about that handkerchief winking/waving: Sorry, but I don't quite understand. Do you want stay seated on our piano bench and wave to the camera?

And now it's my turn...Image

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:14 am 
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Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
But really Andreas, I'm surprised you ate a sausage! Sausages are fattening


Yes, though it was a vegetarian sausage, my pullover was fattened. :lol: Seems, I have to go fitnessing today, isn´t it?! 8)

Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
But don't worry - I'll change my camera angle when I make cuts on my video for our project here.


That´s fine. Of course, I have seen the transition, but also a transition doesn´t change the effect, that it looks a bit unprofessional (only for my personal taste). But on the other side, the quality of the piano-playing is much more important than these stupid cuts, of course. And you play that piece really excellently.

You could change the angel f.ex. by showing your fingers at the keyboard or turning the camera a bit more on the side. It´s also a moment of creativity when making piano-recordings to play a bit around with the camera-angle and to see, what you like most.

Quote:
So, about that handkerchief winking/waving: Sorry, but I don't quite understand. Do you want stay seated on our piano bench and wave to the camera?


Yes, that´s what I have had in mind. (Btw, I have asked me, if the word "winking" exists, I have looked into the online-dictionary and couldn´t find it. So, may be I have translated here too directly from german (to wave=winken)?

And now I still have something important:
1. Could you, please, record metronome-clicks of two or three bars of the three-quarter-bars before starting, for that I have a chance to come in exactly with you together? I will delete the audible metronome clicks later in our synchronized version, of course.

2. Please, don´t forget, that the tuning of your piano should be 440 Hz. I always tune my piano with 440 Hz (and I suppose you, too) and it´s important, that we have exactly the same tuning. I will tune my piano before making my recording.

And finally a little riddle for you:
Thank you and good morning,
I have slept well
in my Bettgestell

(It´s obviously a rhyme, but what does it mean?)

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:28 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
Yes, though it was a vegetarian sausage, my pullover was fattened. :lol: Seems, I have to go fitnessing today, isn´t it?!


haha - I just got back from my gym (fitness center). I made brownies (like chocolate cake) the other day and ate most of them myself! Now I have to pay the price and workout extra hard. :x (I hate that part - exercise takes so long...)

musicusblau wrote:
You could change the angel f.ex. by showing your fingers at the keyboard or turning the camera a bit more on the side. It´s also a moment of creativity when making piano-recordings to play a bit around with the camera-angle and to see, what you like most.


Yes, good ideas - I'll try different things.

Quote:
Yes, that´s what I have had in mind. (Btw, I have asked me, if the word "winking" exists, I have looked into the online-dictionary and couldn´t find it. So, may be I have translated here too directly from german (to wave=winken)?


To 'wink' in English is with your eyes. A 'wink' is with one eye, versus 'blink' is both eyes. Waving is probably more what you have in mind as far as us 'waving our handkerchiefs'. So we're doing it to the camera, right? I hope I don't laugh though....


Quote:
And now I still have something important:
1. Could you, please, record metronome-clicks of two or three bars of the three-quarter-bars before starting, for that I have a chance to come in exactly with you together? I will delete the audible metronome clicks later in our synchronized version, of course.

2. Please, don´t forget, that the tuning of your piano should be 440 Hz. I always tune my piano with 440 Hz (and I suppose you, too) and it´s important, that we have exactly the same tuning. I will tune my piano before making my recording.


Ok, I will add the clicks in the beginning. As to piano tuning - my piano was tuned three months ago. If I call my tuner, then it will delay things quite a lot because he would not be able to come right away - probably more like next week. But I think my piano is still pretty well in tune.

Quote:
And finally a little riddle for you:
Thank you and good morning,
I have slept well
in my Bettgestell

(It´s obviously a rhyme, but what does it mean?)

hmmm.....it means you had a good night sleep in your Bettgestell bed....? (don't know what is a Bettgestell...)

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:23 am 
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Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
So we're doing it to the camera, right? I hope I don't laugh though..


Yes, to the camera. But you really should cry, because the title has to do something with "farewell", isn´t it?! :lol:

Quote:
But I think my piano is still pretty well in tune.


I feel my one also to be quite nice in tune at this moment, so may be I should also not tune it now.

Quote:
it means you had a good night sleep in your Bettgestell bed....? (don't know what is a Bettgestell...)


"Bettgestell" is the german word for "bedframe, bedstead", so this rhyme of a german word with an English one ("well") has a bit of a joke, isn´t it?!

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Oh Andreas - I have not slept well in my bettgestell at all. I've been awake since 4:30 this morning (thinking about our project). Now at 6:00 I have already eaten, showered, dressed, and starting to set up my recording equipment. In case you see this message soon - like within the hour - I just want you to know that I've listened to several recordings of 'our' piece and learned that every orchestra I heard plays the piece in very strict tempo - very precisely like following a metronome. There is no slowing down anywhere. So I guess I will play it like that too which will be actually easier.

Okay, next time you hear from me will be when I'm finished recording/editing/eating/maybe sleeping a little more....

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:12 am 
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Andreas, I have finished my video. Took me all day (as usual) because of noisy chipmunks, birds, airplanes, my sneeze, telephone rings, etc... Also, I had to make three cuts. I left the audio raw and have everything together on one video. Hope it looks okay. It's uploaded in Rapidshare now and so I'll go and send you an email with the link. Good-night ~ zzzzzzz

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:07 pm 
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Thank you so much for the splendid video, Monica. It sounds all very nice and accurate (though I haven´t looked at the breaks still, but I think, they also will be correct). Yes, a quite straight interpretation seems adequate for that piece to me. And you really make very nice dynamics. I´m looking forward very much to record my part (I only can start on monday, as I have told you, because I have guests over the weekend.)

But could you be so kind to upload the only-audio wave-file also to rapidshare? I need it for to edit the synchronization of our both parts. It´s a bit too complicated to separate first the audio-track of the video and then edit our files. I need the single audio-track.

You have done an excellent job, bravo, now it´s my turn! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Thank you, Andreas. Ok, I'll go and send the audio file over to you now.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:17 pm 
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Thank you, Monica, tomorrow I will start to make my recording.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn: Symphony no. 45 (Farewell) four hands project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Just to inform all members who read that thread:
We have finished this project and opened a new thread to present the result (see the topic "Four hands playing over 7130 km...", please).

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