Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:47 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:48 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
It's Mazurka Time! (for the last time)

I have now completed my project of recording all of Chopin's mazurkas. I'm not totally sure how long it took me; I know the very first recording I submitted to Piano Society was a mazurka, but I had not decided to learn/record them all until somewhere after I had gotten through approximately ten of them. If I had to guess, I'd say it took me a couple years. And I'm very glad I did the mazurkas, because I feel like it helped me to understand Chopin better. Not that I can play him any better, but just that I sort of can feel and relate to his moods better...if that makes sense...

I recorded the two op. 63 mazurkas last week and did the last two posthumous mazurkas this morning. I would have completed it all sooner, but I had to order yet another Mazurka book because I could not find these two little remaining mazurkas anywhere - the second one in B-flat major, and the other one in A-flat major. Now I have four Chopin mazurka books! (Don't know what I'll do with all of them... :roll: )

So anyway, here are my last four recordings.

Chopin - Mazurka in B Major, Op. 63, no. 1
Chopin - Mazurka in C-sharp minor, Op. 63, no. 3
Chopin - Mazurka Op. Posth. in B-flat Major, no. 2
Chopin - Mazurka Op. Posth. in A-flat Major


Goodbye Chopin Mazurkas. It was fun playing you - I had a nice time!! :D :( :)

Image

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:17 pm
Posts: 418
Location: Boston
Hi Monica! Congratulations on completing the set of Mazurkas. As laborious as it may have been to learn all of them, it's an excellent example of the labor of love. One may wonder why you chose to embark on your journey through the Mazurkas, and not the Waltzes, Preludes, or Nocturnes?... The Mazurkas are a less abstract entity to comprehend than his other formal music. It's clear to me, especially in the last several recordings, you've discovered the intrinsic value within these gems. The directness of the music speaks to a part of Chopin's life that he clearly longed for throughout his life when he was in Paris. For me, it sounds like a musical home away from home; his musical diary. I think you connect with the music in this way very effectively, both rhythmically and stylistically.

I seriously suggest you pop open a bottle of fine champagne to celebrate your accomplishment! It doesn't happen very often that someone completes an entire set of genre works. Cheers!

Now that summer is over, it's nice to be back again on PS! :D

_________________
"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:57 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Thank you George! :D I chose the Mazurkas because I prefer working on shorter pieces. Plus, although many of the mazurkas are hard for me to play, I didn't consider them impossible like I do certain pieces from some of the other genres. Good idea - I'll pop open a bottle of champagne and celebrate by myself (nobody else cares :( ) (but that's okay because I get a little sick after one or two glasses Image :lol: ). And I'm glad you're back on PS. I may not be here much longer, but in the meantime it warms my heart to 'see' a friendly face.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 301
My heartiest congratulations! :D Your playing is beautiful (as usual :) ). This is a great accomplishment, and you've been at it a long time! I'm a little sad to hear you may not be here much longer, though. :(

_________________
Though everything else may appear shallow and repulsive, even the smallest task in music is so absorbing, and carries us so far away from town, country, earth, and all worldly things, that it is truly a blessed gift of God.

Felix Mendelssohn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
I may not be here much longer


Why that? :shock: :?: I´m very busy at this moment because of my job, but I will listen to your and Chris´ new recordings at the weekend.
Have my sincere congratulations to your complete set. It´s a great achievement! And, of course, I clink glasses with you, skoal!Image

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:17 pm
Posts: 418
Location: Boston
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
I may not be here much longer
I can't take any of the glory away from the Mazurkas, but the celebration seems bittersweet to think that after 5,878 posts, you might not be gracing the forum much longer. Your amazing level of feedback, honesty, advice, support, humor, and knowledge is an irreplaceable resource and presence that will truly be missed. Deservedly, you have my highest praise and appreciation for all your wonderful advice and inspiration... - George

_________________
"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:36 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
Congratulations to a job well done. At last we have a CS that isn't riddled with wrong and missed notes and swathed in pedal like mine (I plan to start re-recording it in the not too distant future).

Not sure what it is this time that makes you want to leave, but do reconsider. I don't think I can - or want to - hold the fort on my own. (even apart from the fact that I'm seriously considering moving house and may well have a stretch of busy and chaotic times ahead). In the end of course it is your decision, not to be influenced by me or anyone else.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:18 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Thank you George, Sarah, Andreas, and Chris. I've been trying to put together some words this morning that will explain things, but can't seem to get my act together. I'll try again later or else tomorrow. But I just want you all to know that I very much appreciate what you have said. :D Also, this is only the second time in five years that I have considered leaving. And Chris, it's really the same old thing....I think you know what I mean...

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
I have listened now to all your 4 Mazurkas with score. They are excellently played, a note-perfect and dynamically very expressive performance. So, for me these are recordings, which you could publish on a CD!
The only suggestion of improvement, I could give to you - but that´s only a matter of personal taste, of course - is to make a bit more rubato here and there, especially in op. 63, no. 3 this could be a nice thing, and in KKIVb no. 4 (=op. posth. a-flat major) you could play a bit more "around" (voicing respective little rubati) with that change of f and f flat in the bars 47-51. These are only some of my ideas of interpretation, if I would play the pieces. (In my Henle-edition these posthumus Mazurkas are only numbered as KKIVb no. 1 and 4, so it wasn´t easy for me to find them with your posth.-numbers, KK=K. Kobylanska: Chopin, Thematisch-Bibliographisches Werkverzeichnis, München, 1979.)
These are very inspiring recordings, Monica. I have listened with my good speakers and the sound-quality is really good. I think, I should come back to Chopin as soon as possible myself. At this time I´m still working on WTC II, this evening I will make some takes of prelude and fugue d-sharp-minor and see, if they are good enough to be posted here.

Please, reconsider if you really want to leave PS! You are one of the best pianists and "valuablest treasures" (I think, another fitting american colloquial word would be "You are a true doll", in my dictionary "doll" is translated as "nice and helpful person", german: netter, hilfsbereiter Mensch) we have here!

I think, there is something like a more or less little crisis on PS now. I know, that two of our site-administrators - you and Chris - both are quite frustrated about the one or other thing, you want to leave. I also was quite frustrated, btw, because there was so little feedback on the four hands pieces of Chris and me and our new recordings of Franz Streuffs "Late Intermezzi". But for me this is no reason to leave PS, of course.
May be we should talk about one or the other of these things - may be in an extra thread in the audition room, because only few members look into the general forum -, also with other members, who are interested in this site. I think, usually that helps or at least some things could be cleared. Probably, if we always "stomach" the things we are angry about, we become ill, and at last this could be the end of this nice forum. (That would be a pity, IMO!)

I also suggest, that we retake our little four hands project (or was it six hands?) during my "autumn-holidays" (which will start in two weeks) which we interupted because of our little dispute because of the Einaudi-music, which I consider as terminated, isn´t it? What do you think?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
musicusblau wrote:
I think, there is something like a more or less little crisis on PS now. I know, that two of our site-administrators - you and Chris - both are quite frustrated about the one or other thing, you want to leave. I also was quite frustrated, btw, because there was so little feedback on the four hands pieces of Chris and me and our new recordings of Franz Streuffs "Late Intermezzi". But for me this is no reason to leave PS, of course.

I'm not so much frustrated as losing interest. While the quantity of good quality submissions is much better than in the past, the forum is not a shadow of what is used to be, and I keep up with it out of habit more than anything else. It's only a handful of regulars such as yourself and David that keep some life into it, and actually bother commenting on recordings. Most of the erstwhile members have either left or are lurking.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:28 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Ohhh, where do I start...? Well, I guess I am just going to be frank/ lay it all out and let the chips fall where they may. Except I have no time today to write out all I want to say( I'm only 'lurking' right now - haha). But I do have A LOT!! to say and it's going to involve everybody here, so I'll compose something as soon as I can - maybe tonight. Thanks, Andreas, for the critique on my mazurkas. That's what I've been wishing for. I know how confusing it is to find them - seems they are numbered differently in every book!

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Techneut wrote:
Quote:
I'm not so much frustrated as losing interest.


Me, too, I have much interest in this forum and I´m still of the opinion, that it is a great and unique establishment. It seems to be the only place on the internet, where pianists from all over the world can "come together" and "talk" about their recordings. That´s indeed something which is worthwhile to be kept up. It´s only, that the work in my job has definitively increased and sometimes during the week I have no time either to comment or to record something. But that changes from time to time, depending how much papers to correct respective preparations I have to make for my lessons.
I also think, that this forum has lost some of its former "life" respecitve "liveliness", because comments generally and especially such, which really try for a factual critique have much decreased. So I share this opinion respective frustration with you. But I don´t think, we can change it, it has to come from people themselves.

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:34 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
Ohhh, where do I start...? Well, I guess I am just going to be frank/ lay it all out and let the chips fall where they may. Except I have no time today to write out all I want to say( I'm only 'lurking' right now - haha). But I do have A LOT!! to say and it's going to involve everybody here, so I'll compose something as soon as I can - maybe tonight.

Exciting prospect. I can see the tabloid headlines already...

Quote:
In Her Own Words
THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT PIANO SOCIETY
Site Admin Speaks Out At Last

Could be a nice addendum to Raymond's book :P

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:54 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
musicusblau wrote:
Me, too, I have much interest in this forum and I´m still of the opinion, that it is a great and unique establishment. It seems to be the only place on the internet, where pianists from all over the world can "come together" and "talk" about their recordings.

If only it were that. For most pianists, with the exception of the regulars, PS is little more than a free podium and hosting service. They step in with a new bunch of recordings, the admins spend some of their free time to evaluate, tag and upload them, and update the site (sometimes considerable time, when new pages must be created and research must be done), the artist gets his/her applause, bows and thanks the audience, and leaves the premises, not to be seen back until there's something else they want published. A boring and predictable dance, that is one aspect of PS that I find increasingly dismaying. Despite Monica's frequent plea to give something back, hardly one of them ever does so.

musicusblau wrote:
That´s indeed something which is worthwhile to be kept up. It´s only, that the work in my job has definitively increased and sometimes during the week I have no time either to comment or to record something. But that changes from time to time, depending how much papers to correct respective preparations I have to make for my lessons.

Anyway you're one of those few people to add real value, both in recordings and in feedback and general discussion. I just wish more of the regulars had stayed on.

musicusblau wrote:
I also think, that this forum has lost some of its former "life" respecitve "liveliness", because comments generally and especially such, which really try for a factual critique have much decreased. So I share this opinion respective frustration with you. But I don´t think, we can change it, it has to come from people themselves.

Indeed. We seem to have fallen below a certain critical mass. Dunno how many times I have seen people write "I'm back" or "I haven't been here much lately, but I promise to spend more time on the forum", but mostly that is loose talk. We also miss the silly banter that was part of PS life in the past (although I must admit never having taken much part in that myself).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:10 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Ok, well, I guess "Hear ye, hear ye!" As Chris clearly referred to, here is the REAL TRUTH. But this is all from my perspective and like what Andreas said - saying and getting everything out in the open may be a good idea in order to avoid having a stomach ache.

I started typing earlier this morning and before I knew it had written out three full pages of all my gripes about certain members and stuff like that. Now I am chickening out and taking out most of what I wrote. Basically all I want to say is that what Chris says here,
Techneut wrote:
If only it were that. For most pianists, with the exception of the regulars, PS is little more than a free podium and hosting service. They step in with a new bunch of recordings, the admins spend some of their free time to evaluate, tag and upload them, and update the site (sometimes considerable time, when new pages must be created and research must be done), the artist gets his/her applause, bows and thanks the audience, and leaves the premises, not to be seen back until there's something else they want published. A boring and predictable dance, that is one aspect of PS that I find increasingly dismaying. Despite Monica's frequent plea to give something back, hardly one of them ever does so.

is what bugs me a lot too. I really do not want to deal with any of these types of members anymore. I wish there was a way for us to put a stop to it - maybe something like that all members must actually put in some time listening AND critiquing other members' recordings if they want their own recordings to go up onto the site. And this includes our 'regulars' too. Why can't we do this? It's not like we are hurting for recordings. We already have TONS of great recordings!

And now on an even more personal and yes, a very selfish level, I'll add this: Bittersweet. George nailed it on the head with this word. That's exactly how I feel about completing my mazurka project. Yes, I am so glad that I did learn and record all of them. To me, it was a nice journey - I learned a lot of new pieces which I had not played before and while I was taking lessons, my teacher was helping me to improve my technique. Prior to my taking lessons, I received feedback on the forum which helped me a lot too. But for the past several months, no one has offered to critique my mazurkas even though I have in the past put in considerable time critiquing other members' mazurkas. So this of course saddens me.

And it's not just my mazurkas, it's a lot of my recordings. There are those many members who visit the forum only when they have new recordings to submit, and then there are regular members who take time to listen/comment but only on new or relatively newer people. Sure, these regular members send me private messages/emails asking me to help them contact a member, or do something for their book, or change their bio page, or ask my opinion about their hour-long video, or ask me to put up their jokes, or replace their Schubert or Chopin recording for about the 20th time, and on and on, and I do all they ask for without complaining. Well, now I guess I am complaining. Don't you think it might be nice to help me once in a while? I am very insecure about my playing! Heck, I hang around here with a bunch of really great players, so can you blame me? I just feel like everybody's secretary. Like, who cares if I practice and practice, trying to grow as a musician like everybody else. As long as I do all the grunt work.

So, that's about it. I don't want to leave PS and really! really!! want to keep our little 'family' together. But if member participation does not become even just a little bit more balanced, then I don't know what else to do. PS has become a sad place for me. Do you think we can bring it back to the fun/entertaining/helpful place it once was?

*********************

@Andreas - Yes, I'd be interested in doing another collaborative recording with you.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
PIanolady wrote:
Quote:
@Andreas - Yes, I'd be interested in doing another collaborative recording with you.


That´s fine! :D So I will make thoughts about a piece until my autumn holidays start. Do you want something four hands or should we try to find another partner for six hands?

I understand your feelings you told us above. Somehow I feel a bit guilty now, because sometimes I also have not always the time to comment on other members pieces, but I think, I´m quite reliable to comment on new recordings of my old friends here (even if some of them don´t always comment reliably on my ones). (BTW, I´m missing somehow Pantelis, do you know something about him. His recordings were always of a high quality!)

I´m very glad to hear you will not leave for now! :!: :D Image

Just on tip: if you want, that your statements should be read by all members, you should post them in an extra thread. Here they could be overseen easily by many members (as sad as it is).

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:55 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
I must admit having some of these sentiments too. Indeed sometimes it feels like we're every Tom Dick and Harry's unpaid secretaries. People don't fully realize all the silly donkey work that needs to be done here, and all the time it can take. I would almost want to suggest that people who want their recordings up on the site sign up as a helper admin, so they can do it themselves. But that is a bit radical. Many people would leave, and for those would would not, it would cost us a lot of time to give them accounts/permissions and explain all the procedures to them, especially the non-technically inclined.

It would be so good to have another full-blown admin though. I know there are (or have been) people around here with sufficient computer and music skills to do the job, but none has ever taken the bait, which peeves me a bit. I guess they all have a good reason.

musicusblau wrote:
I´m quite reliable to comment on new recordings of my old friends here (even if some of them don´t always comment reliably on my ones)

Does this pertain to my recent comments on your Bach, Andreas ?

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Brazil
pianolady wrote:
Ok, well, I guess "Hear ye, hear ye!" As Chris clearly referred to, here is the REAL TRUTH. But this is all from my perspective and like what Andreas said - saying and getting everything out in the open may be a good idea in order to avoid having a stomach ache.

I started typing earlier this morning and before I knew it had written out three full pages of all my gripes about certain members and stuff like that. Now I am chickening out and taking out most of what I wrote. Basically all I want to say is that what Chris says here,
Techneut wrote:
If only it were that. For most pianists, with the exception of the regulars, PS is little more than a free podium and hosting service. They step in with a new bunch of recordings, the admins spend some of their free time to evaluate, tag and upload them, and update the site (sometimes considerable time, when new pages must be created and research must be done), the artist gets his/her applause, bows and thanks the audience, and leaves the premises, not to be seen back until there's something else they want published. A boring and predictable dance, that is one aspect of PS that I find increasingly dismaying. Despite Monica's frequent plea to give something back, hardly one of them ever does so.

is what bugs me a lot too. I really do not want to deal with any of these types of members anymore. I wish there was a way for us to put a stop to it - maybe something like that all members must actually put in some time listening AND critiquing other members' recordings if they want their own recordings to go up onto the site. And this includes our 'regulars' too. Why can't we do this? It's not like we are hurting for recordings. We already have TONS of great recordings!

And now on an even more personal and yes, a very selfish level, I'll add this: Bittersweet. George nailed it on the head with this word. That's exactly how I feel about completing my mazurka project. Yes, I am so glad that I did learn and record all of them. To me, it was a nice journey - I learned a lot of new pieces which I had not played before and while I was taking lessons, my teacher was helping me to improve my technique. Prior to my taking lessons, I received feedback on the forum which helped me a lot too. But for the past several months, no one has offered to critique my mazurkas even though I have in the past put in considerable time critiquing other members' mazurkas. So this of course saddens me.

And it's not just my mazurkas, it's a lot of my recordings. There are those many members who visit the forum only when they have new recordings to submit, and then there are regular members who take time to listen/comment but only on new or relatively newer people. Sure, these regular members send me private messages/emails asking me to help them contact a member, or do something for their book, or change their bio page, or ask my opinion about their hour-long video, or ask me to put up their jokes, or replace their Schubert or Chopin recording for about the 20th time, and on and on, and I do all they ask for without complaining. Well, now I guess I am complaining. Don't you think it might be nice to help me once in a while? I am very insecure about my playing! Heck, I hang around here with a bunch of really great players, so can you blame me? I just feel like everybody's secretary. Like, who cares if I practice and practice, trying to grow as a musician like everybody else. As long as I do all the grunt work.

So, that's about it. I don't want to leave PS and really! really!! want to keep our little 'family' together. But if member participation does not become even just a little bit more balanced, then I don't know what else to do. PS has become a sad place for me. Do you think we can bring it back to the fun/entertaining/helpful place it once was?

*********************

@Andreas - Yes, I'd be interested in doing another collaborative recording with you.

hi, Monica!

I hope the video of my berner is not in the list of the "hour-long video" people want you to watch! hehe

I do understand you both (Chris also). I also understand that this is such a thing that would happen anyway. It's normal to "get used" with the admins of the site and get them overworking for you. So we should think of something to do to avoid it. I thought of something to do...

1) the first thing is to publish messages like this one (Monica did) from time to time. I think it makes people think of it and help you more. so people will read it and change the behavior a little. but it will not last too long. Then you publish another message, "reminding" them. hehe

2) you could have more admins.
I remember someday Chris said he was considering making me an admin, because I was uploading too much and then I could do it myself and his work would be much less. hehe
I think he was kidding.
Even so, at that time I had lots of free time to spend in PS, which is not the case right now.
however some assiduous members could receive this invitation. maybe one should not expect this member will check the Audition Room every day, or even every week (otherwise there will be NO ONE who will accept the invitation). but sure it must be someone you trust (and I mean MUSICALLY. hehe)

3) you should definitely deny any "new composition"! hehe
there are lots of "new composers" posting here in the audition room. most of the time these are crap (or people get mixed up. They write a new age piece and think it's classical). and new compositions take a lot of time to consider the quality of it... and even so it's a task much more difficult and risky than evaluating a performance.


and now I want to make my complain.
I haven't been online on PS for a while. too busy with other stuffs. lots of things changing in my life lately. so I don't know how PS is working nowadays.
but I do remember there were some "lobbies" here, which is disappointing. there are some members who always receive great compliments about their recordings, no matter how "normal" they are, and there are others who always receive critics no matter how good their recordings are. it's something established BEFORE they listen to the recording. if they like the pianist, they'll never listen to any defect; and if they don't, they'll never listen to any quality.

there are also those who "follow" some members. I mean... there are some members who only comment on recordings by an X person.

all of these are understandable, since it mirrors the "real life" (here it's the virtual one). but I do have to say it's kinda of unstimulating.

_________________
Felipe Sarro


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 301
Thank you so much, Monica, for taking the time to share your thoughts. I have noticed some of what you mentioned, and some of it I haven't. It seems like the admin job is one that takes a lot of work, yet everyone takes the admins for granted. It must be difficult.

I must admit, I'm not the best commenter - where I usually access PS it's noisy and I'm unable to hear. But I'll try to be better about contributing my little two cents to the discussions here. And I'm somewhat challenged in all things computer-related, but I might be willing to help out here some too...

_________________
Though everything else may appear shallow and repulsive, even the smallest task in music is so absorbing, and carries us so far away from town, country, earth, and all worldly things, that it is truly a blessed gift of God.

Felix Mendelssohn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 692
Location: Carbondale, IL
Hi Monica,
Some comments on your Muzurkas:
63.1 - great playing, if I could give you any criticism it would be to slow down each phrase, as the way you play it sounds slightly rushed.

63.3 - the rubato is excellent, one remark I have is at 1:18 there seems to be a slight moment of hesitation hitting the a flat. At 1:46 change in pace was great

B-flat major - at :29 it sounds a little too loud, but it could just be my ear, technically sounds great

A-flat major - at :13 and :30 the trills sound cheated. Another word I would use is unbalanced. I realize it is hard to play them uptempo, just something I noticed.

These are some beautiful pieces and you played them great.

I would reconsider leaving and apologize if I have not commented on your pieces or others as much as my time allows.

-Riley

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:02 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
@Andreas - It does not matter to me if we do four-hand or six-hand. Do you think we can find another player if we want to do six-hand? Everybody seems so busy these days...

@Felipe - no, I did not mean your videos. Yours are short and your new puppy is so cute. And can I just reply here (instead of going back to hotmail) that I hope your Masters Degree problems get resolved soon. You are very knowledgeable regarding piano music and also a fine player so I wish you well (plus, you make me laugh...) But really, you and Andreas, and even Chris has told me to put my 'complaints' in a new thread so as to attract attention from all other members. Ok, I think I will do this. Tuesday I will have some time. Maybe we can make it a sort of 'soap box' where we can ALL voice our complaints and suggestions to make PS even better than it is.

@Sarah - that's okay, you are sweet, so thank you.

@Riley - Thank you very much for the feedback. It's hearing these kinds of things that I love - makes me go back and look at the piece to see if I agree or not, and whether I need to re-record the piece in question. Funny, about the rubato. Some people like more, some like less. I am one who likes less in the mazurkas. But that's just me (maybe because I can't do it very well.... :lol: ).

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:53 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
Some good points there, Felipe.

felipesarro wrote:
1) the first thing is to publish messages like this one (Monica did) from time to time. I think it makes people think of it and help you more. so people will read it and change the behavior a little. but it will not last too long. Then you publish another message, "reminding" them. hehe

This doesn't seem to help much. It's far easier to get people to donate their money than their time.

felipesarro wrote:
2) you could have more admins.
I remember someday Chris said he was considering making me an admin, because I was uploading too much and then I could do it myself and his work would be much less. hehe I think he was kidding.

Only half. You certainly were causing us a lot of work at that time, especially with all these new composers. It would be so great if (approved) members could manage their own recordings and pages. But this is not so easily achieved unless we move to a wiki-like concept where everybody can contribute directly to the site.

felipesarro wrote:
Even so, at that time I had lots of free time to spend in PS, which is not the case right now.
however some assiduous members could receive this invitation. maybe one should not expect this member will check the Audition Room every day, or even every week (otherwise there will be NO ONE who will accept the invitation). but sure it must be someone you trust (and I mean MUSICALLY. hehe)

That is the problem. That someone who has musical authority, some IT skills, and is willing to donate time on a daily basis, is a rare bird indeed.

felipesarro wrote:
3) you should definitely deny any "new composition"! hehe
there are lots of "new composers" posting here in the audition room. most of the time these are crap (or people get mixed up. They write a new age piece and think it's classical). and new compositions take a lot of time to consider the quality of it... and even so it's a task much more difficult and risky than evaluating a performance.

Yeah I could do without all the crap stuff being sent in. More often than not, they don't even thank me for telling them it's crap :D
Having said that, there's also very good stuff now and then.

felipesarro wrote:
and now I want to make my complain.
I haven't been online on PS for a while. too busy with other stuffs. lots of things changing in my life lately. so I don't know how PS is working nowadays.
but I do remember there were some "lobbies" here, which is disappointing. there are some members who always receive great compliments about their recordings, no matter how "normal" they are, and there are others who always receive critics no matter how good their recordings are. it's something established BEFORE they listen to the recording. if they like the pianist, they'll never listen to any defect; and if they don't, they'll never listen to any quality.
there are also those who "follow" some members. I mean... there are some members who only comment on recordings by an X person.
all of these are understandable, since it mirrors the "real life" (here it's the virtual one). but I do have to say it's kinda of unstimulating.

Yes it would be easy to spot 'lobbies' here. I think however they are usually built upon common repertoire interest, and the wish to dig deeper into certain issues, rather than on some personal relationship. But yes, the inclination to give detailed feedback on recordings does depend on how well you get on with that person. It's only human. As well as the person's reaction on the feedback - there are maybe only a handful of pianists who actually use constructive feedback to improve their playing. I think I'm one of those. But I don't always get feedback on everything either. Anyway, I guess everybody has their own personal ideas about this topic.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Techneut wrote:
Quote:
Does this pertain to my recent comments on your Bach, Andreas ?


No, Chris, of course not! I don´t know, how you come on that idea. You have commented on my new Bach as reliably as I do always on your Bach-recordings, I think. May be it was a missunderstanding of the word "reliable", I meant it in the sense of "always" not in the sense of "precise". And btw, your ability of listening sometimes seems to be still preciser than my one as you have proofed on my mordents of the prelude.
I only wanted to say, that there are some "old fellows" here on PS, I usually comment on, but they don´t always comment on my recordings. But for me that really is no problem, because I know, how it is to have no time from time to time!

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Last edited by musicusblau on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
Andreas - It does not matter to me if we do four-hand or six-hand. Do you think we can find another player if we want to do six-hand? Everybody seems so busy these days...


I would like to try a four hands piece this time, because this is one factor less of editing and trying to get the tracks right together. I will think about a suitable piece. Of course, you also can make a suggestion, if you like.

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:06 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
musicusblau wrote:
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
Andreas - It does not matter to me if we do four-hand or six-hand. Do you think we can find another player if we want to do six-hand? Everybody seems so busy these days...


I would like to try a four hands piece this time, because this is one factor less of editing and trying to get the tracks right together. I will think about a suitable piece. Of course, you also can make a suggestion, if you like.


Do you want to do just audio/mp3 recording, or do you think we could try video? Also, I don't know that many four-hand pieces, but I do have a list of duets on my computer (somewhere). If you can't think of a piece, then we can look on that list. Also - I just remembered - I do have two Granados four-hand pieces that I was wanting to try out but haven't had the time to as of yet. I can check them out too if you like.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
I do have two Granados four-hand pieces that I was wanting to try out but haven't had the time to as of yet. I can check them out too if you like.


I´m open for that. I also was thinking of a movement of a symphony by Joseph Haydn, arranged for piano four hands. The problem of romantic music for such projects is, that there should be some rubati in them, which is difficult to get together, when we add the two tracks. A classical (or baroque) piece doesn´t need so much rubati. But I don´t know anything four hands baroque piece at this moment.

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Yes, Andreas, you are right about romantic music being hard to synchronize. I'll go look for that list of four-hand pieces I have and see if there are any baroque ones. Also, you, Felipe, and any other member reading this: Go look at the top thread in the Audition Room. I just put up a sticky asking for ideas and suggestions regarding the 'lack of member participation' issue.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
Hi Monica,

Overall, I think you've done nice work here. This is deceptively difficult music to play well, both technically and musically, and you're well on your way to achieving control with them. Generally, I just think you need to breathe a bit more of the life of the Mazurka into these pieces. If you haven't already, it may help to listen to some of the great Mazurka players (especially Ignaz Friedman, with Sofronitsky and Horowitz also coming to mind) just to get an idea. The mazurka IMO is intended to be a rather light, elegant, yet rustic and rhythmically solid dance, and you might experiment more, for example, with its characteristic rhythm (i.e., hesitation on second beat, often accented third beat, etc.)

Overall, on a technical level, things you could work on are the interplay between bass and accompanimental figures (I sometimes found your chordal accompaniments too loud and thumped in relation to the more melodic bass note progressions), rhythmic precision (specifically dotted rhythms, which of course can be very difficult to execute but are seemingly ubiquitous in these pieces), and dynamic contrasts (you do some nice things in this category, but the overall impression I got is that the sound is rather too thick and loud).

Here are some specifics I noted in the first two:

Op. 63, No. 1: This one I have always found to be very tricky with its plethora of ornamentation. Nice direct opening, though note the crescendos in the upward passages (at least in my edition). Your ornaments are quite evenly dispatched, which is good, though in focusing on those, you seem to bog down the tempo a bit. Nice middle section in general, though the tempo does accelerate a bit beyond what seems natural to me. I like your dynamic crescendos and taperings here. Be careful about coming down like a ton of bricks on those forte octaves in the ensuing passage, though. Of course you do want it to be firm but not to give the impression of stomping. Nice lead-in back to theme A, but perhaps it should be even quieter and more contrasted? The last page could perhaps sound nobler and less strained. Nice ending though! I like your contrasts here.

Op. 63, No. 3: IMO this may well be one of the greatest of the mazurkas. I just love that polyphonic dialogic reworking of the main theme. Here I think you could work more on phrasing, perhaps deciding what you want to with each phrase and then practicing it in at a slow tempo? Also, some of the dotted rhythms seem slightly cheated to me (a metronome might help there) I think you have the right general idea, though, and your bass is generally sonorous and well demarcated here. The middle section I think should be more pointed, rhythmic, and quiet (it is marked sotto voce after all -- at least in my edition). Some nice voicing and contrast in the culminating polyphonic passage though.


Well anyway, just some suggestions. It's truly a fine accomplishment to record such a large, wide-ranging set! Something to be very proud of.

_________________
Movie Blog: http://www.criticsloft.com
Classical Music Web Site: http://www.critics-ear.com
Youtube Piano Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Chopin849?feature=mhee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:12 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
jlr43 wrote:
Hi Monica,
Overall, I think you've done nice work here. This is deceptively difficult music to play well, both technically and musically, and you're well on your way to achieving control with them. Generally, I just think you need to breathe a bit more of the life of the Mazurka into these pieces. If you haven't already, it may help to listen to some of the great Mazurka players (especially Ignaz Friedman, with Sofronitsky and Horowitz also coming to mind) just to get an idea. The mazurka IMO is intended to be a rather light, elegant, yet rustic and rhythmically solid dance, and you might experiment more, for example, with its characteristic rhythm (i.e., hesitation on second beat, often accented third beat, etc.)

Hi again, Joe. I totally agree here. It's very strange - you'd think that while learning all these mazurkas and also listening to others play them, I'd be more tuned in to that characteristic rhythm. But it is only NOW that I feel like I understand it better. Not that I can always play correctly, but just...I dunno...I 'get' it. Maybe because it is finally sinking in. But when I am recording, I'm so concerned about getting the notes right, that I forget to get the 'style' right too. Btw - I'm not crazy about Friedman's mazurkas, but I was recently introduced to Jan Smeterlin's mazurkas. I really like his playing! That's how I want to be able to play them.


jrl43 wrote:
Overall, on a technical level, things you could work on are the interplay between bass and accompanimental figures (I sometimes found your chordal accompaniments too loud and thumped in relation to the more melodic bass note progressions), rhythmic precision (specifically dotted rhythms, which of course can be very difficult to execute but are seemingly ubiquitous in these pieces), and dynamic contrasts (you do some nice things in this category, but the overall impression I got is that the sound is rather too thick and loud).

About my chords being too loud and thumped - hmmm, I don't think I've heard that sort of comment before. Interesting.... And thanks for all the other suggestions. I'm beginning to think that I may have to start all over again...like I'm NEVER going to be finished learning these mazurkas!

jrl43 wrote:
Well anyway, just some suggestions. It's truly a fine accomplishment to record such a large, wide-ranging set! Something to be very proud of.

Thank you!

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
About my chords being too loud and thumped - hmmm, I don't think I've heard that sort of comment before. Interesting.... And thanks for all the other suggestions. I'm beginning to think that I may have to start all over again...like I'm NEVER going to be finished learning these mazurkas!

Oh, you thought you were finished with them. Hehe. Are we ever finished with anything....
I'm certainly starting all over again with these.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:56 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
techneut wrote:
I'm certainly starting all over again with these.

:roll: Ha, that's a good one! :wink:

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 741
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Hi Monica, well done on completing the set, which sadly I have not yet had enough time to listen to properly. The playing on these four is crisp and clear and the sound quality is excellent.

musicusblau wrote:
The only suggestion of improvement, I could give to you - but that´s only a matter of personal taste, of course - is to make a bit more rubato here and there
That I would agree with. Getting both "lilt" and "snap" into the rhythms whilst retaining a certain plasticity is not easy. I vividly recall an occasion when I was playing a joint concert with a Polish friend of mine and I had been considering incorporating some mazurkas into my part of the program. There was something about how she played them that I couldn't define, but whatever it was meant she played them so much more effectively than I would have done.

jlr43 wrote:
If you haven't already, it may help to listen to some of the great Mazurka players (especially Ignaz Friedman, with Sofronitsky and Horowitz also coming to mind) just to get an idea. The mazurka IMO is intended to be a rather light, elegant, yet rustic and rhythmically solid dance, and you might experiment more, for example, with its characteristic rhythm (i.e., hesitation on second beat, often accented third beat, etc.)


I like Friedman's Chopin playing, but I also suspect that some of it probably sounds slightly odd to modern ears. Re the hesitation on the second beat, I recall an anecdote about a furious argument between Chopin and (I think) Meyerbeer, who insisted the mazurkas were actually in 4/4.

_________________
My transcriptions cd


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:13 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
andrew wrote:
I like Friedman's Chopin playing, but I also suspect that some of it probably sounds slightly odd to modern ears. Re the hesitation on the second beat, I recall an anecdote about a furious argument between Chopin and (I think) Meyerbeer, who insisted the mazurkas were actually in 4/4.


Hi Andrew, and thank you! But that Friedman thing - I think he goes overboard with that pushing and pulling of the beat. I was listening to him play a mazurka and had to turn it off because I just couldn't stand it. At least I think it was Friedman. I'm not positive about that now but kind of sure. Grrrr... I wish I could remember exactly the video that I'm thinking of now. I'd put the link up here if I did and then we all could discuss it. Oh well, maybe it will come to me later.

And I too remember reading about that argument between Chopin and Meyerbeer. But I do wonder if Chopin really hesitated that long between beats, or if all that has been a little exaggerated. Chopin supposedly didn't like anything taken to the extreme, e.g. dynamics applied too harshly, tempo changed too drastically, etc....I could be wrong about this.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
Quote:
And I too remember reading about that argument between Chopin and Meyerbeer. But I do wonder if Chopin really hesitated that long between beats, or if all that has been a little exaggerated. Chopin supposedly didn't like anything taken to the extreme, e.g. dynamics applied too harshly, tempo changed too drastically, etc....I could be wrong about this.


Hi, Monica. Yes, I think this is generally true about Chopin from what I know, particularly in terms of his teaching, where he demanded an almost metronomic perfection in the beginning. But I also think that Chopin could be convinced by a very different sort of playing than his own, as in the case of the young military man who played the Military Polonaise with great vigor and sonority and Chopin said something like "If I had that young man's strength, I would break every string in the instrument!"

I can see where you're coming from about Friedman, but I would also say that the mazurka is an intrinsically uneven dance. Friedman's individuality in interpreting the mazurka rhythm is for me without equal, as his his tone color, legato, dynamic contrasts, etc. But to each his own :) I would be curious to know which mazurka of his you had listened to if it does come to you.

_________________
Movie Blog: http://www.criticsloft.com
Classical Music Web Site: http://www.critics-ear.com
Youtube Piano Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Chopin849?feature=mhee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
jlr43 wrote:
Quote:
And I too remember reading about that argument between Chopin and Meyerbeer. But I do wonder if Chopin really hesitated that long between beats, or if all that has been a little exaggerated. Chopin supposedly didn't like anything taken to the extreme, e.g. dynamics applied too harshly, tempo changed too drastically, etc....I could be wrong about this.


Hi, Monica. Yes, I think this is generally true about Chopin from what I know, particularly in terms of his teaching, where he demanded an almost metronomic perfection in the beginning. But I also think that Chopin could be convinced by a very different sort of playing than his own, as in the case of the young military man who played the Military Polonaise with great vigor and sonority and Chopin said something like "If I had that young man's strength, I would break every string in the instrument!"


That's interesting; I had not heard that story before. Poor Chopin. In a weird way I'm sort of glad he was the way he was - made him different from all the other 'powerhouses' in those days.

jlr43 wrote:
I can see where you're coming from about Friedman, but I would also say that the mazurka is an intrinsically uneven dance. Friedman's individuality in interpreting the mazurka rhythm is for me without equal, as his his tone color, legato, dynamic contrasts, etc. But to each his own :) I would be curious to know which mazurka of his you had listened to if it does come to you.

I'm curious too and just looked around but still did not find the video in question. :x Maybe it wasn't a mazurka...maybe it wasn't Friedman....could have been Rosenthal...I'll keep looking...

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:29 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Ok, six hours later it hit me. It is Rosenthal :!: Friedman is pretty good, actually! :lol: But this mazurka recording played by Rosenthal is the one that really bugs me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtWnfSPCjm8

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
Quote:
Ok, six hours later it hit me. It is Rosenthal Friedman is pretty good, actually! But this mazurka recording played by Rosenthal is the one that really bugs me.


Well I do find it very elegant and light, but I do agree about the rhythm, finding it a bit on the stylized side. The mazurka that always comes to mind of Rosenthal's that I like is G Major, Op. 67, No.1 (also on Youtube). That I think shows a bit of Rosenthal's panache. Many people have said that Rosenthal's recordings don't do him justice since they were fairly late in his life. One of the later pupils of Liszt (sorry to overexplain if you already know this :P ), he supposedly had one of the most titanic techniques of all time. But he had gone to seed a bit by the time he got around to recording. I do remember really liking Friedman on that A-flat as well.

_________________
Movie Blog: http://www.criticsloft.com
Classical Music Web Site: http://www.critics-ear.com
Youtube Piano Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Chopin849?feature=mhee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:02 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Well, I hate to say this, but I am not crazy about his playing here. It's just so...I dunno...herky-jerky is what comes to mind. I like a little herky-jerky(ness) but this is too much for my liking. While I was on that Youtube page though, I saw a link to a video that compares both Rosenthal and Friedman playing the same mazurka - Op. 24, no. 4. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRZe1qnOgfg

What surprised me was that I was prepared to like Friedman better, but wow - he really played that mazurka so differently, I'm not sure if I like it yet (takes me several listenings to know for sure) and lean toward liking Rosenthal on this one. However, lately I've been changing my mind often regarding which artist I prefer on the mazurkas. I used to say that I liked Kissin the most. Then I switched to Rubinstein, but unbeknownst to me :oops: , I was listening to all his mazurka recordings from his second go-around, and his first set is considered better. George taught me that (thanks, George :) ). However again, now I've been listening to many others like these Rosenthal, Friedman, Smeterlin, and I'm changing my mind again (can I do that? I'm a bit flighty :lol:). I think that some of my mazurkas are okay, but there are a few I think I can do better. When I start making some re-recordings, I'm going to spend considerable time listening to all these guys first.

And see? That's what is so neat about having an on-line community like Piano Society. We have such talented and knowledgeable members here; I'm learning things from you guys all the time! :D

one more thing, Joe - which A-flat mazurka played by Friedman are you referring to?

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
Hi Monica,

Quote:
What surprised me was that I was prepared to like Friedman better, but wow - he really played that mazurka so differently, I'm not sure if I like it yet (takes me several listenings to know for sure) and lean toward liking Rosenthal on this one.


Well for my taste, it's Friedman all the way, although I have heard his recording of this particular mazurka (IMO one of the two or three most difficult) probably 50 times :P The Rosenthal was relatively new to me, though I think I had heard it a few years back. It's certainly very original, though IMO a bit prissy and overelegant. Friedman I think has the right blend of masculinity and femininity, balancing those rather pointed barging accents against incredibly controlled dynamic shadings and tempo shifts (which could be seen as outrageous, but not over much IMO)

Quote:
I used to say that I liked Kissin the most. Then I switched to Rubinstein, but unbeknownst to me , I was listening to all his mazurka recordings from his second go-around, and his first set is considered better. was listening to all his mazurka recordings from his second go-around, and his first set is considered better. George taught me that (thanks, George ). However again, now I've been listening to many others like these Rosenthal, Friedman, Smeterlin, and I'm changing my mind again


Haven't heard of Smeterlin. I'll have to check that out. At risk of dissenting with seemingly most of the world, I have to say that Rubinstein and Kissin both sicken me (in both cases, it always seems so ordinary yet oily and smarmy), though I guess it's not fair here because I haven't heard their mazurkas. :P

Quote:
one more thing, Joe - which A-flat mazurka played by Friedman are you referring to?


Sorry, I wasn't clear above. I just meant the same mazurka that's in the link you dropped in, Op. 50, No. 2 (I'm pretty sure I'm thinking of Friedman's performance anyway :P ).

_________________
Movie Blog: http://www.criticsloft.com
Classical Music Web Site: http://www.critics-ear.com
Youtube Piano Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Chopin849?feature=mhee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
Yes, Andreas, you are right about romantic music being hard to synchronize. I'll go look for that list of four-hand pieces I have and see if there are any baroque ones.


Hi Monica,
phew, now an exhausting week is over and my autumn-holidays begin, they will last two weeks until 24th of octobre. (Plus, I have practised on Bach, f-minor, WTC II, and have made a nice recording this evening.) :D I´m ready to start to practise on our four hands piece. What dou you think about a Menuett (=third movement) or a first movement of a Haydn-Symphony, arranged for piano four hands. I have all 4 books with the great and well-known symphonies by Haydn, like f.ex. the "London Symphony", "The clock", "The bear", "Symphony with the Timpani-beat" and much more. I would be very much up to this. I could scan it and upload it on rapidshare for you or send it to you by e-mail-attachement. May be also the score can be found on imslp.org.
Have you looked also in your list and found a baroque four hands piece?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:21 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Hi Andreas,

I am open to any piece. My list of duets is long but alas there are no Baroque pieces listed. However, there are many Schubert duets. For example: 3 Marches, D.602, 3 Military Marches D.733, 4 Landler D.814, 6 Grand Marches, D. 819, 6 Polonaises, D. 824, the list goes on and on.... But really I don't mind if you would like to do a Haydn piece. Hope it's not too hard....And I'm ready to start practicing right away if you wish.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
I am open to any piece. My list of duets is long but alas there are no Baroque pieces listed. However, there are many Schubert duets. For example: 3 Marches, D.602, 3 Military Marches D.733, 4 Landler D.814, 6 Grand Marches, D. 819, 6 Polonaises, D. 824, the list goes on and on.... But really I don't mind if you would like to do a Haydn piece. Hope it's not too hard....And I'm ready to start practicing right away if you wish.


That´s fine, Monica. So, I suggest to start with a movement of a Haydn-Symphony, which I will scan this evening (respective I also will look, if it´s available on imslp.org). Please, send me also your list of four hands pieces. May be we are up to do one of them
after the Haydn-symphony. Schubert also could be very fine, I think. What do you think? I´m looking forward very much to our collaboration project. BTW, I would like also to make a video, not only audio, with collage/montage-technique of the video. So, would you mind to video-tape the performance of your part?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
I'm looking forward to the project too, Andreas. And video is a good idea. That will make this even more fun! Regarding which piece: We can do your Haydn symphony piece. I'm just a little concerned that it may be too hard for me. I guess I just have to see it to know for sure. The Schubert pieces I'm referring to are all on ISMLP:

1. 3 Marches - D602
2. 3 Military Marches - D733
3. 6 Grand Marches - D819
4. 6 Polonaises D824

So, again, which ever piece you want to do is fine with me.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
O.k., tomorrow in the evening I will find some time to look on imslp and to send you the score of the symphony-movement respective to look, if they are on imslp. This evening I would like to listen to your new Granados-pieces.

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:02 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
musicusblau wrote:
O.k., tomorrow in the evening I will find some time to look on imslp and to send you the score of the symphony-movement respective to look, if they are on imslp. This evening I would like to listen to your new Granados-pieces.


If you tell me the exact name, I can look too. Also Hawley's site may have it. Will save you some time if we can find the music so you don't have to scan it.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
What about Haydns "Abschiedssymphonie" ("Symphony of Farewell), Nr. 45 in f-sharp-minor. It´s availabe on imslp.org:
http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a ... _hands.pdf
I would very much like to play the first movement. It´s one of my favourite Haydn-symphony. Do you have a recording of the original? I think, this is very important to know how it sounds originally. I think, it´s not a too hard one. But you have to judge it, of course.

Seems that all the arrangements by Hugo Ulrich are availabe on imslp.org. :D

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:14 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Ok, yes I can see the piece on IMSLP. It looks fine. The first movement is not that long and I'm sure I could play it. So, which part would you like me to play?

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
Ok, yes I can see the piece on IMSLP. It looks fine. The first movement is not that long and I'm sure I could play it. So, which part would you like me to play?


Fine, that you want to play it with me. :D I would like to play Secondo, because I always did it, when I have played it with Franz, would you mind to play the Primo-part? I will start to practise tomorrow and I wil also look for a right tempo for the metronome, so that we have a common orientation. If we will have found a common tempo, may be you could record your part first, because you have most of the melody and main-voices. My part contains more of the accompaniment. I wil record my part while listening to your part. What do you think?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:17 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8516
Andreas, is it okay with you if we continue this discussion in a new thread? I do not wish to have my mazurka thread brought up to the top anymore. Tomorrow I will make a new thread - I have a couple questions for you. Bye-bye for now.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin Mazurkas (COMPLETE) Yay!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
Andreas, is it okay with you if we continue this discussion in a new thread? I do not wish to have my mazurka thread brought up to the top anymore. Tomorrow I will make a new thread - I have a couple questions for you. Bye-bye for now.


Of course, it makes sense to create a new thread for our four hands project. I attend your questions. I suggest, after having arrived to an agreement concerning the right tempo, we should not record it with metronome in the background, because it will become probably a bit too unmusical. Do some agogic, rubati, please. I will try to feel into your interpretation and to play synchronically with you (hope it will work). I think, that would be better than our quite "metronomical" playing in the Rachmaninof-pieces. In every case an attempt is worthwhile, isn´t it?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group