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 Post subject: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:58 pm 
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Today was Bach day... isn't every day really !
Made re-recordings of the E-major and E-minor pairs of both books. The BVW852 is a redo of the one I posted some days ago, with (marginally) better trills and voicing, and less pedal. I don't think I can get this one any better right now.

Bach - BWV 852 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier I - Prelude and Fugue No.7 in E flat major (6:31)
Bach - BWV 853 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier I - Prelude and Fugue No.8 in E flat minor (9:39)
Bach - BWV 876 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier II - Prelude and Fugue No.7 in E flat major (5:23)
Bach - BWV 877 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier II - Prelude and Fugue No.8 in E flat minor (8:30)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:17 am 
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Hi Chris,
now I could listen with score.

BWV 852, prelude: wow, this is a quite excellent recording, the voicing has much improved! There are some places it could be done more of it like f.ex. in bar 53 ff., tenor. A bit of a pity is, that some of the nice rubati of your old version get less respective lost.
While listening to your version, I have noticed, that in bar 20 I have always played a wrong note (a instead of a flat, second eigth of tenor voice). So thank you for teaching that to me! :D Pedal is very good now, btw.
fugue: also good. The tempo is a very little bit too high for my taste, at some places it seems a bit hurried to me (f.ex. in bar 16). But in summary a good recording!
BWV 853, prelude: very lyrically and musically played! But I play this like a French Ouverture with the double dotted rhythm and I think it has to played like this, isn´t it?!
fugue: good, but with the usual lack of voicing (at least it´s not clear enough).
BWV 876: I play this a bit faster than you, in this tempo it looses quite much tension and interest IMO, especially in the second half (here you still become a bit slower here and there). The eights bars 21 ff. in the bass are often too long, I think. But in summary a good recording. Of course, tempo is just a matter of taste.
fugue: here the voicing seems better in summary than in BWV 853, nice performance!
BWV 877: prelude: nice way to play it in summary, though I will interprete it in another way! The tempo is definitively a bit too high for the 32nd notes at many places (respective you would have to practise them a bit more, because they are quite unprecise), increasingly in the second half. Don´t take any pedal during these 32nd-runs, because it all are runs of seconds! In bar 23 it´s c double sharp on the 3rd beat, you seems to play c sharp there, isn´t it? The mordents often are too weak/unprecise.
fugue: there are some nice attempts of voicing, but it could be much clearer at some places. At some places the voicing is really good! The tempo is quite slow here, but it´s possible. In summary a convincing version! In bar 30 you play a sharp instead of a natural on the first beat. In bar 32 the last note in the soprano is a f double sharp, not f sharp like you play. In bar 34 I play b natural in the soprano on the second beat, because the # is in brackets in my Henle-editon, but you also can choose the h sharp, of course. In bar 40, second half there are some notes too weak respective inaudible (where they all right?). In bar 44 you play on the 2nd sixteen-note in the alto a f sharp instead of a g sharp. I think, this one could be rerecorded because of too much wrong notes.

I will try some takes on BWV 877, too, this evening, if I find some time. I have played this pair also during my studies in Cologne so I´m very familiar with it. See you! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Thanks again for your meticulous feedback Andreas. I was half hoping you'd pass on this lot and save me some work :D

musicusblau wrote:
BWV 852, prelude: wow, this is a quite excellent recording, the voicing has much improved! There are some places it could be done more of it like f.ex. in bar 53 ff., tenor. A bit of a pity is, that some of the nice rubati of your old version get less respective lost.

Yes that one had its merits too. In avoiding the 'hesitations' I maybe cut out some of the agogics.

musicusblau wrote:
BWV 853, prelude: very lyrically and musically played! But I play this like a French Ouverture with the double dotted rhythm and I think it has to played like this, isn´t it?!

Not sure. I usually simply play what's written...

musicusblau wrote:
fugue: good, but with the usual lack of voicing (at least it´s not clear enough).

Hm. I thought I was doing quite well there... Maybe not. Definitely I do not want the fugue voice to drown out everything else. I heard that recently in a recording by Rosalyn Tureck, and thought it was awful. Every time the fugue voice came out, all else was reduced to background murmur.

musicusblau wrote:
BWV 876: I play this a bit faster than you, in this tempo it looses quite much tension and interest IMO, especially in the second half (here you still become a bit slower here and there). The eights bars 21 ff. in the bass are often too long, I think. But in summary a good recording. Of course, tempo is just a matter of taste.

It is. I find your version rather too fast.

musicusblau wrote:
BWV 877: prelude: nice way to play it in summary, though I will interprete it in another way! The tempo is definitively a bit too high for the 32nd notes at many places (respective you would have to practise them a bit more, because they are quite unprecise), increasingly in the second half. Don´t take any pedal during these 32nd-runs, because it all are runs of seconds! In bar 23 it´s c double sharp on the 3rd beat, you seems to play c sharp there, isn´t it? The mordents often are too weak/unprecise.

I was not quite convinced of this recording either and planned to redo it anyway. Thanks for pointing out that read error.

musicusblau wrote:
fugue: there are some nice attempts of voicing, but it could be much clearer at some places. At some places the voicing is really good! The tempo is quite slow here, but it´s possible. In summary a convincing version! In bar 30 you play a sharp instead of a natural on the first beat. In bar 32 the last note in the soprano is a f double sharp, not f sharp like you play. In bar 34 I play b natural in the soprano on the second beat, because the # is in brackets in my Henle-editon, but you also can choose the h sharp, of course. In bar 40, second half there are some notes too weak respective inaudible (where they all right?). In bar 44 you play on the 2nd sixteen-note in the alto a f sharp instead of a g sharp. I think, this one could be rerecorded because of too much wrong notes.

Generally I like my slow fugues really slow :D Again I thought the voicing here was good but maybe not. As you say it needs redoing if only for the read errors. I can't understand how I could have left in that stupid mistake in bar 44 :x As for bar 34 I've always played the B-sharp but B naturalsounds good too. Both ways have their own attraction.

musicusblau wrote:
I will try some takes on BWV 877, too, this evening, if I find some time. I have played this pair also during my studies in Cologne so I´m very familiar with it. See you! :D
Ok, enjoy. Personally I can get really lost in this fugue (lost in the good sense, in that I forget everything else).

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:28 am 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
Not sure. I usually simply play what's written...


I think, it has to played in double dotted rhythm, all recordings I know have that rhythm.

Quote:
Every time the fugue voice came out, all else was reduced to background murmur.


That´s the other extreme, but believe me, even with a bit better voicing you would be far away from that. Of course, also the voicing should not be exaggerated.

Quote:
Personally I can get really lost in this fugue (lost in the good sense, in that I forget everything else)-


Yes, me too. I have posted my new recording of the pair.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Ok, I have re-recorded the BWV 877 today. I believe this is much better than previous, and hopefully without any more read errors. It's 17 seconds slower than before, so I must have slowed down a bit on the prelude (hopefully not on the fugue) :D

Bach - BWV 877 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier II - Prelude and Fugue No.8 in E flat minor (8:47)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:04 am 
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Oops, seems I have overseen your re-recording all the time, Chris, sorry. :oops: I will listen to it this evening. Now I will have do correct my daily measure of papers first (my favourite activity in the holidays as you can imagine :roll: ).

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Indeed, your re-recording is much improved! There only seems to be kept a wrong note in bar 13, you play f-double-sharp instead of a simple f-sharp on the penultimate sixteenth-note of the upper voice.
To the prelude: very straight and eve (may be partly a bit too mechanical for my personal taste), but at some places I hear some (attentive) interesting ideas of voicing and a bit agogic. (Your first version of prelude in e-flat-major was really good concerning agogic. Here are only some attentive approaches.)
To the fugue: the voicing has improved. It´s an accurate and clear version. I like your tempo.

In summary a great job, Chris!

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC I/II - E flat major and minor
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Thanks ! I had actually circled that note in bar 13 but still managed to read it wrong.... I may well want to redo this prelude anyway. Seems like I am never satisfied with my Bach recordings these days.

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