Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:28 am

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Well, this is a submission for evaluation to see if I warrant admission to your community. I hope you'll like the performance ... or at least find it adequate. There is no complete performance of this work in your library (though there is a 25' video that includes Sonata No.2). If you find this submission adequate, I will follow with a few other gaps in the library: Rameau's Gavotte et variations, Bach-Busoni Chaconne, Bartok's Out-of-Doors suite (complete: now there is only the first of five pieces), plus I can add further renditions of the Haydn Sonata in C No. 50 (complete), Liszt Liebestraume, Beethoven Sonata in C Maj Op.53 "Waldstein" (complete) and Debussy's : L'isle jouyeuse. Lord willing, there'll be more each year. :) (I don't understand if I'm supposed to do anything with the "Poll" feature, so won't do anything with it.)
Sincerely,
Eddy del Rio

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:55 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
Hello Eddy, and welcome to Piano Society. I listened to the first movement here and I think you play very well. But the sound quality has quite a lot of hiss in the background and I'm thinking it may be because it's an older recording. We are not so keen on people submitting a bunch of their old recordings and these are twenty-three years old according to the tags. Why don't you first tell us a little about yourself and we'll go from there...

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Certainly,
You are correct ... this was recorded in the 80's when I was a DMA student at the University of Cincinnati's College-Conservatory of Music. At that time I was studying with Richard (Dick) Morris, department chair. Before that, I earned the MM a few years prior at the same school, studying with Santos Ojeda, a pupil of Rosina Lhevinne. For my Bachelor of Music and during High School, I studied with Arminda Schutte, an exiled Cuban concert artist and a pupil of Joseph Lhevinne. I taught for about a decade all together mostly in Miami (New World School of the Arts, and Miami-Dade Community College) and at Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville. But my life took a different course <much not detailed here> and I ended up becoming a physician. I have not performed *seriously* for 20-something years! But not two months ago, I decided to come back to my first love and am preparing a recital and have chosen programs for the next several years. More importantly, I'm just enraptured spending the hours at the piano again, and I am amazed at how quickly it's all returning. Additionally, if it wasn't clear, I too am requesting consideration to be recognized as one of the Society's "Artists".
Sincerely,
Eddy del Rio

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:13 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Hi Eddy,

We'd be more than happy to welcome you as a PS artist. It's great when people find their way back to the piano after having been distracted by unimportant chores like being a MD :wink:

But as often, old recordings don't quite do it for us anymore. The loud hiss, recessed and harsh sound, and the obnoxious clicks at the beginning do not make for good listening. You playing is solid and efficient, kudos for sailing so well through what is a very difficult sonata (for some reason I've never grasped this sonata seems to be the domain of female pianists). The bad sound makes it hard to comment in much detail, but I'd say you are playing on safe a bit, not wanting to throw caution to the wind as maybe you should. There's some minor slips which of course can be forgiven in music like this - though they would be more acceptable if the playing was a bit more reckless.

It would be good to have this work on the site, but I'd hesitate to admit it because of the sound quality.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
You are preparing for a recital so you must have pieces pretty well down, or at least will be soon. Why don't you make some 'new' recordings and then submit them to us. That's mostly how we operate here, anyway.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
I certainly understand the concerns expressed on the quality of the recording; I guess I'm listening with old-technology ears :wink: Additionally, I have waited this long and can certainly wait longer in order to do it right. However, it will be a wait of nearly a year (and I am patient). My first principal teacher (who remade my world, Arminda Schutte pupil of Joseph Lhevinne) had told me once: you should learn one program, practice another, and perform a third each year. Well such a schedule was always impossible in my student days, but now ... that's what I'm doing. The only change to the above is that starting with the new year, I am adding a work for piano and orchestra each year too. Since I chose many works already in my past repetroire for my first program, I will have it "learned" by the end of this year despite starting at the end of September. I am anxious for the new year to roll in so I can start "learning" my next program. I can't tell you how enjoyable it was to construct such an overview of the next several years! Wish me luck. This may not be the proper forum (and please dirrect me properly) but I'll share what my "comeback" recital is going to be:

Gavotte et six variations Rameau
Sonata in F minor, Op.57 Beethoven
Scherzo No.3 in C# Minor Chopin
<break>
L'Isle joyeuse Debussy
*Preludes Op.23, Nos. 4,5,6 Rachmaninoff
Sonata No. 1, Op.22 Ginastera

And since no one on this CBB will likely be there :( , I'll share the encores too:

*Nocturne in Db Maj for the LH Scriabin
*The Musical Box Liebich

*=New to my repetroire

There you have it. In the new year, the Prokofiev Sonata No.7 and Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini figure prominently! Comments? I will bet my bottom dollar, that no one in PS has ever heard the last encore or even heard of it's composer Immanuel Liebich. I have been unable to find ANY biographical information on him. Though it is easy enough to find an arrangement of the encore transposed and simplified (G Major), in order to get the original (Ab Major) I had to buy a pdf of the original from the National Library of Australia! It is a *real* delight, and in my opinion the finest of it's genre. I look forward to the day I can submit it.

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Ok, I just listened to a sample of the download, and now I don't understand all the hullabaloo (sp?) about the recording quality. "Loud hiss"? I don't hear the hiss. "Recessed sound?" You will always have this in a Hall recording versus a living room or home studio. The clarity is perfectly audible compared to some of the recordings I just sampled from other Artists. I will give you the "pop" at the beginning of the file, but please, anybody wanting to hear the piece would just ignore such an ellusive distraction during the opening silence. Is it more just the *knowledge* that I recorded this 20+ years ago that's driving such complaints? At first I thought something dramatic must have happened when it was converted to MP3. I am confused. :?:
Eddy

Edit: Corrected punctuation

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:01 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
musical-md wrote:
Is it more just the *knowledge* that I recorded this 20+ years ago that's driving such complaints?

Nope, we would bitch about the hiss anyway (and deduce from it that is was an old recording, if you had not mentioned it).

The hiss is considerable, like cassette tape or vinyl record hiss, and it worries me that you say you don't hear it. It is rather distracting in the relatively few quiet moments in this sonata, notably the start of the Adagio (BTW, what is that funny sound at 1:07 in the adagio ?). The sound is maybe not 'recessed' but rather harsh. Although you are right that there are many worse sounding recordings on the site, dating back to times when we were less critical. The starting clicks are not really an impediment but we'd normally ask people to cut these out - everything to please the listener :)
I would not honestly say that these things will necessarily spoil everybody's listening experience. For some they will, and for some they won't. Old-technology ears may not mind so much :) It is just that we do prefer a better sound quality these days, and expect some editing to remove pop and crackle best as possible.
Rest assured this is no criticism of your very accomplished playing (even despite my very small reservation). We can put this on the site if you promise to give us a state-of-the-art recording once you have it up to performance standards again.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
I listened to the first movement and a bit of the second. The hiss is noticeable to me (especially in the slow movement), though I don't find it particularly bothersome overall. I would probably be more in the category of old-technology ears, however :P

Regarding the playing, the chops are certainly there in spades, but I do find it a bit pounded. Seems like it could be generally lighter with more pointed accents in places rather than the constant crashing chords.

_________________
Movie Blog: http://www.criticsloft.com
Classical Music Web Site: http://www.critics-ear.com
Youtube Piano Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Chopin849?feature=mhee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
Not so much my taste. I miss some education for appreciating fully this music. The Danzas Argentinas are more accessible to me. Here attached the second motion without the hiss. Removing the saturations on the forti would be more difficult.

However great playing as far as I can judge. Thank you Eddy for sharing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Didier,
How did you do that? If the result is improved enough for the tribunal to allow, I wonder if you would do the same for the 3 other movements? Pretty please (my sound engineer)? :P If you come to my office I will return the favor with a free comprehensive physical exam, rectal included :mrgreen: (but no labs)! Regarding the playing, it's not perfect, I had a slip or two ... hopefully to be avoided in the future, but I think I more than make up for it in the more difficult 3 other movements.
Gratefully,
Eddy

PS. If this is possible then maybe I could resubmit the "fixed" files for reconsideration.

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
techneut wrote:
The hiss is considerable, like cassette tape or vinyl record hiss, and it worries me that you say you don't hear it.

OK, when I picked up my desktop computer speakers and held them to my ears like headphones (I look quite stupid mind you), THEN I can hear the hiss! Recommendation: Listen to from speakers across the room: any hiss will be covered by the ambient noise 8) . However, as you will see elsewhere in this thread, I may have some hope otherwise.
Eddy

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
When I saw the title of this thread, I had to fly in here somehow, because I recently have heard Gabriela Montero playing this sonata and was so impressed.
I have edited the three other movements, they are free of hiss now, too, like Didiers excellent editing of the second movement. I put in the "X-noise"-function of WaveLab and I have edited each beginning and end of the files. I have put in silence at the beginning and employed the fade-out function and silence at the end.
From my view these recordings are quite enjoyable now. The only problem are the distortions here and there, because of a too high enty-level while recording, which can´t be made reverse as far as I know.
Really not bad playing. Have you ever heard Gabriela Montero playing Ginastera? For me her version is the best I have heard until now. :D

To Didier: Have you also employed the "X-noise"-function in the master section or did you do other things?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Dear Blue Music,
Thanks so much for your input and editing work. I have not heard Gabriela Montero, but will look to see if I can find somthing to listen too. I like her name right from the get-go! I will download the newly "de-hissed" files and resubmit them for reconsideration. Also, the fact that there are folks like you and Didier that can do such helpful adjusting, will NOT be taken advantage of by me. :wink: This will be my only submission for consideration until I have newly recorded works (unless I can learn to do what you guys have done to my files). Regarding interpretations, a long time ago I learned that given "legitimate" interpretations, you must satisfy yourself and you will never satisfy everyone else. All of us can probably point to great artists whose interpretation of this or that work we find "simply horrid." I certainly can (Alfred Brendel playing Chopin comes to mind, but his German stuff is entirely different!). This is what I love about concert/recital publicity bills in Europe (Latin parts anyway); instead of printing: "Eddy del Rio, Piano" as we do in USA, they print "Eddy del Rio, Interpretor." Now execution is another matter and should not be an issue ... and we all (I'll speak for myself) I always have to work hard for a flawless execution (what's that?). Anyway, I have to say, it really feels good to be talking piano works and piano playing again after so long! Thanks all!
Eddy

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Hi Eddy,

musical-md wrote:
Quote:
Dear Blue Music


wow, that sounds jazzy to me. I probably should change my nickname here. :lol:

Quote:
a long time ago I learned that given "legitimate" interpretations, you must satisfy yourself and you will never satisfy everyone else.


nah, I always say to myself: even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn. :wink:

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
musical-md wrote:
If you come to my office I will return the favor with a free comprehensive physical exam, rectal included :mrgreen: (but no labs)!


Thanks! But I still prefer to listen to this sonata... :lol:

I used the same kind of plugin like Andreas .

(Andreas, I used Z-noise, which is bit better than X-noise. :mrgreen: )

For the attached one, I did more. Don't know whether it is that audible?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Didier wrote:
Quote:
(Andreas, I used Z-noise, which is bit better than X-noise. :mrgreen: )


Could you tell me, where I can find that in WaveLab, please?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
It's this plugin. Not provided with Wavelab. Not so much different from X-noise, which originates from the same company.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Didier wrote:
Quote:
It's this plugin. Not provided with Wavelab. Not so much different from X-noise, which originates from the same company.


Thank you, that´s interesting, but why is it a bit better than X-noise?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
It has some features that X-noise do not have. For instance, it can preserve the transients better. See the descriptions given by Waves for X-noise and Z-noise.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Didier wrote:
Quote:
It has some features that X-noise do not have. For instance, it can preserve the transients better. See the descriptions given by Waves for X-noise and Z-noise.


Thank you very much, Didier. If I have understood correctly, the Z-noise has a 5-Band Noise Profile EQ
and an Enhanced low-frequency resolution and time sensitivity and you also can monitor the noise and not only the complete output like in X-noise, right? Is the price really 492 US-Dollars (see this link, please: http://register.waves.com/wavesstore/storemain.aspx#) or have I overseen a decimal point?

I also have the "learning function" in X-noise. I still have tried that out, but I couldn´t hear any difference before the learning and after the learning process. Do you think, it´s an effective function? (Sorry, if my questions are boring for you, but I´m a true layman concerning these things.)

I have another question to you as an expert:
Monica has discovered two little "pop"-noises on my newest Bach-recording (P&F e-minor, WTCII). I can´t hear them in WaveLab, but with other players like VLC-player, Windows Media Player etc. I have recorded my performance with 192 Khz and 24 bit (I always save them on a DVD-Audio). Could the converting process to mp3 have caused these "pop"-noises? If that would be backround-noises in the room, I should hear them also in WaveLab, isn´t it?

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
Indeed this plugin is horribly expensive. This one and even X-noise are not much useful for today digital recording where the noise can be kept very low. The learning function is useful when there are noise only at the beginning or the end of the track so that the plugin can acquire the noise spectrum. In such a case, like here, I always use it. I hear a high frequency loss from your file with respect to mine for the movement that we processed both. However I cannot say that this is because I used the learning and you did not. It may be also due to my noise removal settings being more cautious than your ones.

For your second subject, I answered you in your Bach topic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New submission for audition (Ginastera Sonata No. 1 Complete
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Germany
Didier wrote:
Quote:
Indeed this plugin is horribly expensive. This one and even X-noise are not much useful for today digital recording where the noise can be kept very low.


I agree, it´s more useful for editing old analog recordings (tapes, gramophones etc..)

Quote:
The learning function is useful when there are noise only at the beginning or the end of the track so that the plugin can acquire the noise spectrum. In such a case, like here, I always use it. I hear a high frequency loss from your file with respect to mine for the movement that we processed both. However I cannot say that this is because I used the learning and you did not. It may be also due to my noise removal settings being more cautious than your ones.


I´m sure your settings must be more professional, because I don´t know too much about the details (I haven´t taken the time to explore them until now, but I will do in future for sure).
If there is noise at the beginning and the end, I always set a marker directly at the beginning of the first wave and put silence in before the music starts, at the very end I also often put silence in respective I use the "fade-out"-function to create a softer ending. But probably all that is very layman-like as I am in these matters.

Quote:
For your second subject, I answered you in your Bach topic.


Thank you so much, Didier! :D

_________________
Link to my videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/musicusblau


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group