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 Post subject: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:15 am 
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Posts: 468
Location: France
Hello,

my first Schumann recording, a lied from Dichterliebe. The words are from Heinrich Heine:

Hör' ich das Liedchen klingen,
das einst die Liebste sang,
so will mir die Brust zerspringen
von wildem Schmerzendrang.

Es treibt mich ein dunkles Sehnen
hinauf zur Waldeshöh',
dort lös't sich auf in Tränen
mein übergroßes Weh'.

English translation:
I hear the little song sounding
that my beloved once sang,
and my heart wants to shatter
from savage pain's pressure.

I am driven by a dark longing
up to the wooded heights,
there is dissolved in tears
my supremely great pain.

I play the piano and singer parts together.

Didier


Schumann - Dichterliebe Op. 48, no. 10 "Hör' ich das Liedchen"


Last edited by Didier on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Hi Didier,
what a nice idea to play this famous song solo on piano. I know it very well and I love it! It´s one of the piece of heart of german romantic. And it´s very nice to have a contribution to the Schumann year 2010 by you! I have read some new books and articles about Schumann and I have recorded and live performed his Fantasiestücke op. 73 for clarinet and piano this year. That was my contribution and way to celebrate his 200reds anniversary. He died in Düsseldorf respective Bonn Endenich, that´s not far away from the place I lived in former times.

To your performance: it has very nice and sensitive musical moments as we are used by you. How beautifully you underline the singing voice and make it to be silhouetted against the arpeggios of the accompaniment! That´s very good work of voicing. But again there are some little rhythmical problems of eveness: f.ex. in bar 2 on the the second beat you make a hesitation (,which I can hear is because of a certain unsureness, not because of musical expression). The arpeggios in eigths could be more eve here and there (between bar 9 and 20 mostly). In bar 15 I don´t hear the second on the third sixteenth in the accompaniment. Bar 24 and 25 should also be more eve, here are really rhythmical problems.
But the musical expression with the dynamics and the sforzati is very good. I also like your large ritardando at the end, great!

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
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Hi Andreas,

thank you for your listening, your kind words and your much valuable comments.

Quote:
in bar 2 on the the second beat you make a hesitation (,which I can hear is because of a certain unsureness, not because of musical expression)


Yes, it was an attempt of musical expression. Bab indeed... :oops:


Quote:
The arpeggios in eigths could be more eve here and there (between bar 9 and 20 mostly).

Yes, as usual to me. :wink:

Quote:
In bar 15 I don´t hear the second on the third sixteenth in the accompaniment.

I'm a bit shy with this dissonant second, I agree. But it is present: I checked by means of the spectral analysis in Wavelab. :lol:
Quote:
Bar 24 and 25 should also be more eve, here are really rhythmical problems.

Yes. I shall fix that. I will do another take soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:10 am 
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I was a bit disappointed that you did not actually sing it ! That certainly seems a possibility, and you've done it before. It would be quite unique. a singing pianist. Anyway this is nice too, though I am not sure this arrangement really works, there seems too little contrast between the piano and vocal parts. There are some rhythmical issues as usual, but not as many as there used to be. You are definitely more steady. But remain alert on
that ! I guess we could put this in Schumann - Miscellaneous, if there is such a page.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Location: France
Hi Chris,

as a consolation to your disappointment may I suggest that you listen to this so moving and beautiful performance of this lied by Thomas Quasthoff and Hélène Grimaud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfL5D_MN5bE


It is transposed in E, a third lower, for baritone voice, what I should have done also if I would have wanted to sing it. The Dichterliebe cycle was written originally for tenor voice. May be, i'll will do it some day, certainly not for official upload on the site. My voice is so ridiculous... :wink:

Schumann - Miscellaneous would be perfect but let me a chance to offer a better performance. I'm in vacation on this week, so I have some time to play piano.

Thanks,

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:02 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
Anyway this is nice too, though I am not sure this arrangement really works, there seems too little contrast between the piano and vocal parts.


It´s no arrangement. Didier has played the original here, but just played the singing voice on the piano in addition to the orignal piano accompaniment. He really has made a very good voicing work here by causing a dynamical difference exactly between each note of the singing voice and the piano accompaniment. Listen with score, please, and you will see what I mean!

Quote:
There are some rhythmical issues as usual, but not as many as there used to be. You are definitely more steady.


I agree to that, nevertheless there are the concrete rhythmical problems I mentioned above.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:08 pm 
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Didier wrote:
Quote:
But it is present: I checked by means of the spectral analysis in Wavelab. :lol:


:lol: Good joke, my friend! :lol: Don´t be afraid of that poor harmless dissonance, it will not bite something off your listeners! :wink:


Have much pleasure with further practising!

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:33 am 
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Hi,

my new recording here attached. It's a bit faster, which I prefer now.
Have a nice sunday,
Didier


Last edited by Didier on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:17 am 
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Hi Didier,
bravo, that´s a very good recording now! I´m just listening the third time to it. Very sensitively played and what a great sound-quality, it´s an absolute enjoyment. I like very much, how you bring out the chromatic line at the end, also the dramatic highpoint in f is very well choosen here. It´s a special highpoint in that song, which otherwise is very moderate and silent. It´s a lamentation.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:50 pm 
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Thank you again Andreas for your, listening, your help and your kind appreciation. :)

Since it has not yet been put up, I revised the EQ and the reverberation. I am more satisfied with this new one from the same second take, here attached. I did not tame small noises coming from the piano action (likely because of the humidity close to 70%) unlike in the previous one because this operation caused some audible artefacts. I have removed both previous files in this thread so that to avoid any mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:36 am 
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This is up, Didier. Sounded nice - I like the poem.

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:16 am 
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Thank you Monica. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Hi Didier!
I was just wondering are those base notes held? Often in Schumann they are not, and holding them interrupts the sense of the left hand phrases and line. Not holding them also frees you to use your pedal maybe more creatively, to enhance the singing line. But anyway it's moving in any case!
By the way, which mic did you use for this? Would I be too far off guessing AKG?
Hope you're well! Been following your shootout results with interest on gearslutz!
A presto,
John

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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:07 pm 
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Hi John,

The bar is 2/4 and there are 2 quarters at the left hand. But your remark made me look again at the score and think that I should try not using so much the pedal. Do you know this very beautiful rendition by Thomas Quasthoff and Hélène Grimaud ( :wink: ).

Quote:
Would I be too far off guessing AKG?

Not so far. The brand's name is indeed in three letters and there is also an A, but not at the same place. :lol: (Yes in three letters, not four.)

Thank you for your listening and your post,

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Schumann - Dichterliebe - Hör' ich das Liedchen
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Haha, anyway I was sure it was a mic with a three letter name... What ears I have! That would make it DPA? Thought the sound was a little dark for that... oh well, it's fun guessing! Regarding the bottom notes, now that I've heard Grimaud at it, I'd say you're quite right. In terms of pedaling it, I'd suggest in passages like this to make those bottom notes for the most part "slegato" if not notated otherwise. In other words, not pedaled into one another, though obviously neither with a big hole in between them. Thus neither staccato or legato, but "slegato"! Playing around with the size of the breath in between them can be very expressive. Meanwhile the pedaling will be more effective for the inner voice and melody. I don't on the other hand think it's over pedaled. It's usually very clean. Now I'll clean out my ears and try to relearn the difference between mics!
ciao
John

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