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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:39 pm 
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I'm surprised you did not hear the wrong note in bar 11, which I only just noticed.


:shock: No, I didn´t notice a wrong note there.

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I guess I'll need to record this one yet again :x


That´s destiny. Life is ever learning, for me it´s the same, of course. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Hey Chris - you're right; it's much better now. I think before the 16ths were just missing a pulse, and that was the worst of it. However, I think your trademark bits of rushing might actually be a lot more noticeable than in the first recording. You recorded the fugue again as well? Some bits sound different than I remember...mostly articulation, and that first ornament caught my attention (nicely played)...also the end seems smoother.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:21 pm 
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Thanks Terez. Trademark bits of rushing - that sounds not too good. While I firmly believe in a steady pulse, I don't anymore believe Bach should be played rigidly metronomic all through. I do apply some rubato (which for some reason is called agogics in Baroque music). But rushing is to be avoided, I often enough chide others about this. Can you tell me the exact places where this happens ?
Yes I did redo the fugue, mainly because Andreas said the voicing could be improved. It still can, of course... but it's a bit better now. Seems like one is just never done with these pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:30 am 
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techneut wrote:
Thanks Terez. Trademark bits of rushing - that sounds not too good. While I firmly believe in a steady pulse, I don't anymore believe Bach should be played rigidly metronomic all through. I do apply some rubato (which for some reason is called agogics in Baroque music).

I agree that it should not be rigidly metronomic, as I'm sure you know. This is more a matter of pulse than rubato, and I think it is called agogics because the most acceptable form of rubato in baroque music is the agogic accent, where one moment in time only is suspended, like a tenuto but characterized more by the space between notes than the length of the accented note?

Anyway...your trademark rushing. Already in the opening i-iv-vii˚-i...the G-E-C# triplets are faster than the triplets previous. It's a very slight thing - sort of just like you get to those C#s a tad too soon - but enough to make it sound a bit unsteady. There are a few other places like that where it is a small thing, but I think it is most evident when the bass has a descending line.

Chris wrote:
Seems like one is just never done with these pieces.

Even if we had no real technical difficulties with them, I doubt we'd be done with them. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:29 am 
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Terez wrote:
Anyway...your trademark rushing. Already in the opening i-iv-vii˚-i...the G-E-C# triplets are faster than the triplets previous. It's a very slight thing - sort of just like you get to those C#s a tad too soon - but enough to make it sound a bit unsteady. There are a few other places like that where it is a small thing, but I think it is most evident when the bass has a descending line.

Yes it seems that certain triplets go a tad faster than others. I think it is more a matter of fingering/hand position than of rushing. I need to re-record this one again anyway, because I am not at all satisfied with it. Attempting a complete WTC in good quality seems to be a foolhardy enterprise... it's becoming ever more difficult to produce a recording that I can be happy about.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:41 am 
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That's a good thing so far as I'm concerned; it means your personal standards are rising. I don't think it's foolhardy to attempt it at all; even if you spend your life re-recording them over and over again, it's a worthy use of your time, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:40 am 
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That is very true, and I would not at all mind doing that. Unfortunately there's so much else I want to do as well :x

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Techneut:
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Yes I did redo the fugue, mainly because Andreas said the voicing could be improved. It still can, of course... but it's a bit better now.


Oh, I had not listened again to the fugue, because I thought, you only have re-recorded the prelude :oops: , but I listened to the fugue right now. I have to say, it has improved A LOT. The voicing is much better than before and there are very nice musical moments of agogics in it. Your playing has become much more alive and artfuller than in your version before. Continue so, you are on a good way from my view! :!:
I really enjoyed to listen to that recording of the fugue and will listen to it more than only one times.

Quote:
Seems like one is just never done with these pieces.


I suppose, this feeling is a sign of every real artist. I have it always, too, and yes, striving for a perfect recording of WTC is probably one the most demanding task one can impose to oneself. That´s not why I do it, btw, I just love Bachs music (and the WTC especially) so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:06 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
Oh, I had not listened again to the fugue, because I thought, you only have re-recorded the prelude :oops: , but I listened to the fugue right now. I have to say, it has improved A LOT. The voicing is much better than before and there are very nice musical moments of agogics in it. Your playing has become much more alive and artfuller than in your version before. Continue so, you are on a good way from my view! :!:
I really enjoyed to listen to that recording of the fugue and will listen to it more than only one times.

Thanks for that ! As usual I have less trouble with the fugues than with the preludes.
One one hand it is frustrating not to be able to render these pieces perfectly, whatever you try, on the other hand it is great that there are always opportunities to improve. I can understand now why artists feel the need to re-record such iconic works time and time again. This is the special thing about Bach, his greatness is so daunting that you sometimes despair, and yet he is your close friend and mentor.

musicusblau wrote:
I suppose, this feeling is a sign of every real artist. I have it always, too, and yes, striving for a perfect recording of WTC is probably one the most demanding task one can impose to oneself. That´s not why I do it, btw, I just love Bachs music (and the WTC especially) so much.

So true ! I have it with the KDF too. It really can be one's daily bread, more so than any other music.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:13 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
on the other hand it is great that there are always opportunities to improve. I can understand now why artists feel the need to re-record such iconic works time and time again. This is the special thing about Bach, his greatness is so daunting that you sometimes despair, and yet he is your close friend and mentor.


I second that.

Quote:
So true ! I have it with the KDF too. It really can be one's daily bread, more so than any other music.


Good to know, that you are not on a Nazi-trip or so! :lol: (So I know, that you probably mean "Kunst der Fuge" and not "Kraft durch Freude".)
I´m sure there will come the nice day I also will dedicate myself to that maybe greatest late opus of our great old master, the "Kunst der Fuge"!

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