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 Post subject: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Another one to replace my older recordings. I think I'm finally approaching decent quality.

Bach - BWV 851 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier I - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor (3:25)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:01 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Another one to replace my older recordings. I think I'm finally approaching decent quality.

Bach - BWV 851 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier I - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor (3:32)

Unlike most of your re-submissions, I remember listening to your old version of this one. Yes, there is definitely some improvement; I am going by memory, but two things I noticed that I think are better than your last version:

1. You seem to depend less on the pedal in the prelude.

2. Your ornaments tend more toward melodic devices in the fugue.

There is still a good bit of awkwardness, particularly in the RH of the prelude and the end of the fugue. One thing that I think would help in the prelude is to pay a bit more attention to the LH, maybe bring it out a bit more in general, to help balance the RH, which especially toward the end seems as if you are about to lose control of it, and overall seems too loud to me, or perhaps just too heavy. Maybe accenting only downbeats (every other triplet) in the RH a bit would help too? I can't even pretend to give advice on the fugue; those ornaments are a bitch from hell. I believe we have discussed this fugue before; I think it's immensely difficult because of those ornaments, but you tried to tell me it was easy. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:12 pm 
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Thanks Terez. Listening back, the triplets in the Prelude indeed don't seem as supple to me as they should have been, though awkward, I would not think they really are. I do bring out the LH in several places. The intensifying near the end is intentional. Ah well, there will always be things to perfect. One is never done with this music, but I need to leave well enough alone sometimes... can't mull over one piece for years like you do :P
Did I say this fugue was easy ? Must have been on something at the time then.... It's relatively uncomplicated compared to some others but indeed the trills are a bitch. I think most of them come out satisfactorily.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:05 am 
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techneut wrote:
Thanks Terez. Listening back, the triplets in the Prelude indeed don't seem as supple to me as they should have been, though awkward, I would not think they really are. I do bring out the LH in several places. The intensifying near the end is intentional. Ah well, there will always be things to perfect. One is never done with this music, but I need to leave well enough alone sometimes... can't mull over one piece for years like you do :P

Yes, yes I know....I obsess over them for years and still can't play them! Not to start another semantics debate, but I think what I meant by 'awkward' was that every now and then one of the off-beat notes will be just a little louder than a downbeat, but your way of putting it - not so supple - works fine to describe what seemed off about it to me. Maybe it just needs some phrase-shaping, not just an accent on those downbeats, but a bit of a crescendo toward them. I dunno; I have never worked on this one, but I have played through it often enough to know it's not as easy as it looks.

Chirs wrote:
Did I say this fugue was easy ? Must have been on something at the time then.... It's relatively uncomplicated compared to some others but indeed the trills are a bitch. I think most of them come out satisfactorily.

hehe, I found where you said that. In your defense, Alfie said it first so I'm sure it was just peer pressure. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:08 am 
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Terez wrote:
Yes, yes I know....I obsess over them for years and still can't play them! Not to start another semantics debate, but I think what I meant by 'awkward' was that every now and then one of the off-beat notes will be just a little louder than a downbeat, but your way of putting it - not so supple - works fine to describe what seemed off about it to me. Maybe it just needs some phrase-shaping, not just an accent on those downbeats, but a bit of a crescendo toward them. I dunno; I have never worked on this one, but I have played through it often enough to know it's not as easy as it looks.

I find many of the preludes generally harder to cope with than the fugues. Probably sez more about me than about the music :D

Anyway, you have to give me a bit more credit than just 'some improvement'. This re-recording (while maybe not perfect) is lightyears apart from the earlier attempt, which was really more awful than even you remember (I always listen to the old one before putting up the new one, and jeez, that was a sloppy job, especially the prelude).


Terez wrote:
hehe, I found where you said that. In your defense, Alfie said it first so I'm sure it was just peer pressure. :lol:

Yeah, I tend to chime in with people :D But actually, being a bit more experienced, now I am finding it hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:50 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Terez wrote:
hehe, I found where you said that. In your defense, Alfie said it first so I'm sure it was just peer pressure. :lol:

Yeah, I tend to chime in with people :D But actually, being a bit more experienced, now I am finding it hard.

Yeah, that makes sense I suppose. IIRC you did the ornaments simpler in the previous version? If so, that would make a huge difference. I trust you on the old recording being more horrible than I remember; I probably hadn't listened to it since around the time of that thread I linked. But that awkwardness or lack of suppleness in the RH of the prelude was one of the things that I recalled about the old version...I don't remember well enough to say how much that improved, but I do remember too much pedal.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Hi Chris,
the prelude is much improved since you have played it to me live at your home two weeks ago, very fluently and with an adequate use of pedal. I think, I have heard two read errors, but cannot tell you the bar numbers, since I have no score here, will do that later. The first is at the end of page one, the second somewhere on page two.
The fugue could be improved concerning steadiness of tempo at the beginning and voicing. I personally prefer a faster tempo for this fugue, because of its dancing character.
Apart from that a nice rendition IMO. The ornaments are o.k.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:12 am 
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Thank you Andreas. There's always something to be improved isn't there.
I will be curious to hear about these read errors. Because I believe there are none :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Chris,

Nicely stated focus of melodic intent of composer.
The structure is well defined and sings where most appropriate .
Your performance demonstrates a clear understanding of where to emphasize when the phrases need to sing out.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Thanks for that Kaila :D

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:21 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
I will be curious to hear about these read errors. Because I believe there are none :)


Hi Chris, now I have found some time to look for them with score. In bar 14 (exactly at O:46) you play f instead of e natural. (It was the first accolade of the second page, not the last of the first page, sorry. But I had no score in Holland.)
The second read error is at the end of bar 20, the three last eigths are all a second too high, that means you play b flat, a, g instead of a, g, f in the tenor voice like it should be.
I heard that without score, because I now this piece especially well (I have played it in a competition in former times as I have told you.)
But musically it´s really a fluent and nice rendition and that´s the main thing! Bravo!

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:23 am 
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musicusblau wrote:
Hi Chris, now I have found some time to look for them with score. In bar 14 (exactly at O:46) you play f instead of e natural. (It was the first accolade of the second page, not the last of the first page, sorry. But I had no score in Holland.)
The second read error is at the end of bar 20, the three last eigths are all a second too high, that means you play b flat, a, g instead of a, g, f in the tenor voice like it should be.

RATS ! Yes ! I've always done it like this, and apparently not sufficiently listened to other performances to pick this up.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'll certainly have to redo this one now. I've also come to agree with Terez that these 16ths are a bit clunky, making the whole not particularly graceful.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Re-recorded this one, taking in account the feedback from Terez and Andreas.
It may be wishful thinking yet, but I think think this pair is pretty much ok now 8)

Bach - BWV 851 - Das Wolhtemperierte Clavier I - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor (3:25)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Techneut wrote:
Quote:
It may be wishful thinking yet, but I think think this pair is pretty much ok now 8)


Of course, it´s pretty o.k. now and I congratulate you, but it´s wishful thinking as far as there still (not already :wink: ) is a wrong note in bar 14: the last note of the third sixteenth triplet in bar 14 is e, you play f there (as I have pointed out already, not still :wink: ). The positive matter is, that I have learned already how to use "already" and "still" from you and you partly have improved your prelude by deleting the second mistake I pointed out above. :D
The tempo is quite fluent, that´s a decent possibility to play it, though I personally prefer a slower tempo, in which I can underline more structural features of this prelude. But that´s a matter of interpretation and taste, of course.
In summary a great job!

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 Post subject: Re: Bach - WTC1 - BWV851 - Prelude and Fugue No.6 in D minor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:58 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
Of course, it´s pretty o.k. now and I congratulate you, but it´s wishful thinking as far as there still (not already :wink: ) is a wrong note in bar 14: the last note of the third sixteenth triplet in bar 14 is e, you play f there (as I have pointed out already, not still :wink: ). The positive matter is, that I have learned already how to use "already" and "still" from you and you partly have improved your prelude by deleting the second mistake I pointed out above. :D

Damn yes, I've been trying hard to correct that mistake but it's so ingrained that it is hard to get rid of.
I'm surprised you did not hear the wrong note in bar 11, which I only just noticed. I guess I'll need to record this one yet again :x

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