Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:19 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
Today is my Birthday :) On this day I want to do more than the usual (and not so productive) baby-care, so I'm posting this CS of that old :!: Bach-Rach.
Even though this set (especially the first two pieces) is the most long time project ever (I've lived with them nearly one and a half year), the result is quite disappointing... It's not so pleasant to post recordings with bunch of slips and still existing technical problems after so much time investment, but I must finish this set at this point. My baby got finally a seat at a day care center, so I have to gradually go back to my unfinished doctoral thesis.
Anyway these three pieces gave me the most hard time concerning the piano playing... They seem to be not so difficult, but in fact they were the most difficult pieces within my limited piano experience :? Despite the unsuccessful result I learned really a lot from them, so I'm pleased with having recorded all of them, at least for now.

First movement: Preludio
It was this one that seduced me to those hard and frustrating times :twisted: I was so excited at this piece, so I started to learn this set. I've just heard the "beta version" from January and think I've certainly made much improvement at the musical view (At this point I'm very grateful to the menbers who gave me precious feedbacks). But the new recording has more slips than the previous one :( I was so sad about them, so frankly speaking I tried to create a slipless version from several takes. I did make one, but the musical flow was really unnatural. So I present a recording without any cut (but with bunch of slips), which gives me back my fondness toward this piece and emotional mood during the playing. If you have an open and kind mind, the slips wouldn't disturb you too much :wink:

Second movement: Gavotte
This piece is really enchanting... I just love it. But behind the beauty are many tricky spots. I once read a book about the piano playing ("With Your Own Hands" by S. Bernstein) and often follow one of the advices on that book: To hold one's breath at difficult spots. During the recording sessions of this piece I got nearly a breathing trouble because of successively appearing tricky spots!!! I'm not so satysfied with my recording, since my limited technique and mastery over myself made some really beautiful moments blurred. But overall tolerable, I believe.

Third movement: Gigue
I much profited from the advices of our Bach experts on the Bach-thread I started on the Repertoire forum during practicing this piece. But I spent most less time for this piece and you can hear hurriedness and unsolved technical problems here and there. I think I don't have the technique for this kind of style yet at command. Well, hopefully it gets better with times...

Any comment/critique is much appreciated!!!


Rachmaninov - Suite from Bach's E major Violin Partita - 1: Preludio (3:13)
Rachmaninov - Suite from Bach's E major Violin Partita - 2: Gavotte (3:46)
Rachmaninov - Suite from Bach's E major Violin Partita - 3: Gigue (1:41)

_________________
Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:55 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9496
Location: Netherlands
Wishing you a happy birthday Hye-Jin ! And a great birthday present you've given yourself.
These are immensely polished recordings. Any slips there are may be are so minor to be insignificant.
Some passages in the Preludio could be a bit more accurate, and in the Gigue you could make more of
the terraced dynamics. As you say this piece is so much harder than it seems when you first start it
and you do an admirable job. Can't say I warm to the digital sound with its tinkly trebles and its
woolly basses, but what can you do...

Unfortunately the Preludio is missing the last half page or so. Always listen back after uploading !
I'll wait for you to re-upload before putting these on the site.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
Thank you very much Chris for your professional listening and comments as usual! I did listen to (only) the Preludio after uploading, since it took me strangely long time to upload, and was ok ... :shock: Anyway I'm attaching the Preludio again. Sorry for causing more work than it should be.
And thanks for your kind Bday wish! :D It was a fine birthday: I posted the recordings here, listened to a recent recital of Berezovsky (and I found there so many beautiful Lyadov pieces which you certainly know! I may start to learn his Barcarolle), bought me and my husband iced chocolate (we had a coupon 2 for 1 :wink:) and cook a fine dinner for us. Still we have an unopened birthday cake in the fridge, but we cannot eat anything more... so tomorrow is my birthday again on which I'm going to cut and taste the cake :lol:
Quote:
Can't say I warm to the digital sound with its tinkly trebles and its woolly basses, but what can you do...

Yes, I missed the Steinway a lot on which I used to practice. The digital piano seems to have no life. It doesn't change itself. I know also an acoustic piano isn't alive, but you can get an impression you and the instrument adapt themselves to each other, cannot you? I was always feeling as if I was talking to a wall while I struggled with these hard pieces.

_________________
Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 301
Happy birthday from me, too! :D It sounds like you have had a wonderful and musical birthday.

Wow, Hye-Jin, these recordings are very much a big accomplishment. :shock: They are extremely impressive, and it's obvious you have spent a lot of time and work on these (and have an excellent talent for interpreting them :wink: ). All three of the pieces were very musically and expressively played... the Preludio has a beautifully coherent, logical flow to it, and the interpretation was vital and healthy. The slips didn't bother me at all. :wink: The articulation in the Gavotte was well done, and I liked the discreet rubato you used. And I thought you coped with the technical - and musical - difficulties of the Gigue very well, even though you said you haven't worked on it very long! It was light and frolicky... very fun to listen to. :D

Was the Bernstein book a recent read for you? Just a month or two ago I purchased that book, and it now stays under my pillow for me to read often... what a genius teacher he is! I have learned so much from it.

_________________
Though everything else may appear shallow and repulsive, even the smallest task in music is so absorbing, and carries us so far away from town, country, earth, and all worldly things, that it is truly a blessed gift of God.

Felix Mendelssohn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9496
Location: Netherlands
hyenal wrote:
Thank you very much Chris for your professional listening and comments as usual! I did listen to (only) the Preludio after uploading, since it took me strangely long time to upload, and was ok ... :shock: Anyway I'm attaching the Preludio again. Sorry for causing more work than it should be.

No problem, sh** happens :D
These are up on the site now. Please check if all is ok. If you have some text for the new page, that would be appreciated.
I've files this under Rachmaninov, not Bach.

hyenal wrote:
I posted the recordings here, listened to a recent recital of Berezovsky (and I found there so many beautiful Lyadov pieces which you certainly know! I may start to learn his Barcarolle)

I have contemplated learning this one too, it may well be one of Liadov's finest piano works among a large body of mostly high quality pieces (not that I know them *all*). I'm currently reading Rimsky-Korsakov's book "My musical life" which contains much interesting and amusing first-hand material on Lyadov (the two were very close). Had his huge talent not been hampered by a huge indolence, Liadov could have been one of Russia's best composers. Good that a pianist like Berezovsky makes a case for this neglected music.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
sarah wrote:
Happy birthday from me, too! :D It sounds like you have had a wonderful and musical birthday.

Thanks Sarah!
Quote:
They are extremely impressive, and it's obvious you have spent a lot of time and work on these (and have an excellent talent for interpreting them :wink: ).

Oh, I'm much flattered to receive such a compliment from you, Sarah :D However, interpreting them required me to do a lot of thinking, indeed. Especially on the Preludio I tried several different approaches and made many experiments. And about the opening I always had your advice (*Let the music breathing!*) on my mind and asked myself continuously how to realize it. Besides, I wanted to give every single moment of this piece a meaning which I could agree with. I had difficulties with some spots, and I even blamed Rachmaninov for his composition :lol:
Quote:
the Preludio has a beautifully coherent, logical flow to it, and the interpretation was vital and healthy.

That was the very response which I want to get from a listener! Even though this take has a lot ugly slips (I just listened to it to confirm that every link is ok and every slip seems to stab me in the heart :cry: I cannot believe how I could make so many after such a long practice...), I chose this one among uncountable many takes (that Preludio ate up a couple of giga byte on my SD card :lol: ) because like you also I got such an impression of vitality and proper energy from it.
Quote:
The slips didn't bother me at all. :wink:

That proves your open mind and kind heart :wink:
Quote:
Was the Bernstein book a recent read for you? Just a month or two ago I purchased that book, and it now stays under my pillow for me to read often... what a genius teacher he is! I have learned so much from it.

I'm happy that you have and like the book, too! One of my friends lent it to me a few years ago, saying "You'll play the piano one hundred times better after having read this book!" I didn't read the whole book yet (I bought me an used book afterwards, though), so I cannot say his prediction was correct or not :lol: (At the end of the day he cannot play the piano!!! He is just an amature clarinettist...). Anyway I was very impressed by the enthusiam of the author toward his amature pupils. That was my main motivation to purchase the book for myself.

_________________
Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
Chris wrote:
These are up on the site now. Please check if all is ok. If you have some text for the new page, that would be appreciated.

Every link, every file works fine. But you wrote "E minor" instead "E major" on the title :wink: I'll write a small text about this set within a few days. And thank you for the pretty box on a new page!!! I thought they will go to the "misc." section.
Quote:
I've files this under Rachmaninov, not Bach.

A correct choice, I think.
Quote:
I have contemplated learning this one too, it may well be one of Liadov's finest piano works among a large body of mostly high quality pieces (not that I know them *all*). I'm currently reading Rimsky-Korsakov's book "My musical life" which contains much interesting and amusing first-hand material on Lyadov (the two were very close). Had his huge talent not been hampered by a huge indolence, Liadov could have been one of Russia's best composers.

Did Lyadov have "a huge indolence"? Then he and I have at least one thing in common :lol:
Quote:
Good that a pianist like Berezovsky makes a case for this neglected music.

In that recital from May 26th in Louvre, Berezovsky made an excellent job. I think he had the best shape on that day. The hard and even athletic (first) sonata of Rach was very successful, too. But what appealed the most to me was the seven small pieces of Lyadov. Unusually he used the score stand for those pieces, and not a good looking "edition" but the copied A3 paper with thick black lines at that! :lol: :lol: But the performance itself was really beautiful. I always like Berezovsky's a bit detached but sincere interpretation of very lyrical pieces. Chris, if you had any chance (or time) to watch the recital (you can easily select only the Lyadov section), could you let me know the opus numbers of the pieces just titled on medici as "6 Preludes"? I downloaded some scores from IMSLP with the title "Preludes", but could identify only one piece (Op.39-4 the fast one with many octaves in bass).

_________________
Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


Last edited by hyenal on Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9496
Location: Netherlands
hyenal wrote:
Every link, every file works fine. But you wrote "E minor" instead "E major" on the title :wink:

Hum, yes :) See, always good to check. I've corrected that.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
Thank you Chris for correcting it.
Here is a text written for the new page:

In 1933 Rachmaninov arranged three pieces from the third violin partita of J. S. Bach (BWV 1006) for the solo piano – Preludio, the third piece Gavotte en Rondeaux and the closing Gigue. However he didn’t just rewrite the violin score for the keyboard, but created a very original work from them – Since the original was written for a solo violin (like in the case of Busoni with the Chaconne from the second partita), he had to add something to them to make a piano version. But when we see the opening Preludio, which was adapted by Bach for use in two of his cantatas (BWV 29 and 120a) and appears in the fourth Lute Suite BWV 1006a again, the result was a much more creative one than the Busoni’s, because unlike the Chaconne the original piece was written on a just single voice (the harmonies on Busoni’s work were mainly determined by Bach in advance) and Rachmaninov’s modifications were seamless contrapuntal parts opposite to the single voice and the thereby arising new harmonies. One can enjoy this colorful creativity of Rachmaninov on the graceful Gavotte and the light and playful Gigue again and find a rather unexpected aspect of Rachmaninov at the same time.

I borrowed a couple of vocabulary from other texts in internet, but mostly my own writing - it says you had better correct the ackward expressions by me :mrgreen:

_________________
Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 1986
Location: U.S.A.
Happy Birthday, Hye-Jin! :D

I loved listening to this Partita in E for Violin. You play it very beautifully with vibrancy and panache. Excellent!

Right into the early 1980s, I recall that piano transcriptions of Bach were not always well-received, for example, the Bach/Busoni" Chaconne" in D. Even when Rubinstein would use it as one his favorite program openers, purists would ask why he did that, where Bach wrote voluminous keyboard music. Attitudes have since changed, and I believe it's a very positive development that so many now enjoy these piano transcriptions like this Partita in E for Violin. Rachmaninoff did Bach a great and lasting service in creating this transcription. Not only was Bach extremely versatile, but his music is just as versatile, as you demonstrate so very well in your wonderful performance here, Hye-Jin.

I also admire your long-term practicing of this work until you were satisfied it could meet your standard. We all could learn an important lesson from that, including me. Thanks for posting!

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 715
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Well-controlled playing. I'm not especially familiar with these particular pieces, but Rachmaninov's transcriptions are often significantly harder than they sound. Despite your reservations, I particularly liked the Gavotte and thought you put across a sense of its internal logic. I'd like to hear you play these on an actual piano, as I get the impression the keyboard doesn't do you full justice.

_________________
My transcriptions cd


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Brazil
hi, Hye Jin!

as I don't care for the other movements, I'll comment only the Preludio. hehe
(just kidding. in fact, I find the preludio much more beautiful than the others, that's why.)

this new recording has much more nuances than the previous one. the beginning is a delight!
I'd only wish that the octaves at 2'08 were more marcato. like your previous recording, you don't do a contrast at 2'21, but this time it's because you're already playing very softly, with a beautiful touch.

I think you play the gavotte too romantically. subtle rubati are allowed, but I'd wish a firmer tempo. regarding tempo fluctuations, the gigue is much better, in my opinion.

congratulations for completing this set!

_________________
Felipe Sarro


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Germany
@David
Thank you very much for your kind words, David! And many thanks also for sharing that very interesting reception-history of Bach transcriptions. I didn't even know that Rubinstein played that Chaconne often!

@Andrew
Thank you for the kind comments!
Quote:
I'd like to hear you play these on an actual piano, as I get the impression the keyboard doesn't do you full justice.

I used to say the same thing to our members who played a piece successfully on a digital piano, as I could practiced and recorded on a Steinway B over two years. I'm a poor student studying in a foreign country, so that it will take me many years to buy me a decent real grand after going back home. Anyway I have to be satisfied with the recent digital technique which made possible for me to get a reliable wood keyboard for 2000 Euro. I believe this keyboard is at least good enough for practicing.

@Felipe
Thanks for listening and commenting, Felipe!
Quote:
this new recording has much more nuances than the previous one. the beginning is a delight!

I agree :wink: I've worked on the opening section really a lot. In comparison with it the middle section needs some improvement, just donno how...
Quote:
I think you play the gavotte too romantically. subtle rubati are allowed, but I'd wish a firmer tempo. regarding tempo fluctuations, the gigue is much better, in my opinion.

Really? :shock: You seem to have a completely different notion about these movements than mine! I wanted to play the Gavotte much more romantically :lol: I even thought during recording sessions of this movement often, this would come off if I could play it on a real large grand with inspiring deep sound. On my view this second movement is the most Rachian piece on this set, which is located between the two much more Bachian arrangements. The harmonies and dynamics which Rach intended in Gavotte are not a Bach any more.
And you know, the tempo fluctuations on the Gigue were just resulted from my lacking self-control... I wanted to play that in more strict tempo :roll:

_________________
Hye-Jin Lee
"The love for music. The respect for the composer. The desire to express something that reaches and moves the listener." (Montserrat Caballé about her main motivation for becoming a singer)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Brazil
hyenal wrote:
And you know, the tempo fluctuations on the Gigue were just resulted from my lacking self-control... I wanted to play that in more strict tempo :roll:

no no!
the Gigue is fine! :D

_________________
Felipe Sarro


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bach-Rachmaninov Suite from the Partita in E for Violin
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:02 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9496
Location: Netherlands
hyenal wrote:
Thank you Chris for correcting it.
Here is a text written for the new page:

In 1933 Rachmaninov arranged three pieces from the third violin partita of J. S. Bach (BWV 1006) for the solo piano – Preludio, the third piece Gavotte en Rondeaux and the closing Gigue. However he didn’t just rewrite the violin score for the keyboard, but created a very original work from them – Since the original was written for a solo violin (like in the case of Busoni with the Chaconne from the second partita), he had to add something to them to make a piano version. But when we see the opening Preludio, which was adapted by Bach for use in two of his cantatas (BWV 29 and 120a) and appears in the fourth Lute Suite BWV 1006a again, the result was a much more creative one than the Busoni’s, because unlike the Chaconne the original piece was written on a just single voice (the harmonies on Busoni’s work were mainly determined by Bach in advance) and Rachmaninov’s modifications were seamless contrapuntal parts opposite to the single voice and the thereby arising new harmonies. One can enjoy this colorful creativity of Rachmaninov on the graceful Gavotte and the light and playful Gigue again and find a rather unexpected aspect of Rachmaninov at the same time.

I borrowed a couple of vocabulary from other texts in internet, but mostly my own writing - it says you had better correct the ackward expressions by me :mrgreen:


I missed this post because of the hiccup with the mail function.
Thanks for this text, I added it to the page, and indeed changed some wording (but without affecting or altering the text, I believe).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group