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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:22 pm 
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techneut wrote:
This rearrangement probably makes it easier to play, but it would seem more difficult to make the melody stand out as required. It's hard to see where it is in this notation. Anyway, the main objective of this section is to get out alive :lol:


Correct ! Long time ago I had a piano teacher who claimed that arrangements were always less good than original... But when you simply cannot play the music, either you use this kind of strategy, or you give up playing a beautiful 8' piece just because 10 seconds of hell.
Anyway, there may be other ways of re-writing, which keep the melody more apparent. Looking forward to seeing your version, Chris ! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Francois de Larrard wrote:
Anyway, there may be other ways of re-writing, which keep the melody more apparent. Looking forward to seeing your version, Chris ! :lol:

Haha, I am too lazy for that. I'd just BS my way through it best as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:40 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Francois de Larrard wrote:
BS

BS = ????

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Everybody's hand is different, so if hand or finger substitution works to give the desired outcome, then by all means do it! I've done this too. Composers are not editors; and editors are not composers. Although many editors have committed hubris in this regard where they have seen fit to do so. However, pianists are just as qualified as editors in assigning the hands and fingers to simplify a passage that's playable. After all, it's your own hand.

By the way, BS is a colloquial English abbreviation... Here:
Il ya des passages où tout ce qu'on peut faire, c'est des conneries son chemin à travers elle la meilleure façon possible. In other words, there are passages where all one can do is to BS one's way through it as best as possible. Or at least until you sort it all out. Wow! I have to admit, that's one tough passage!

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Francois de Larrard wrote:
BS = ????

BS = bullshit. Like many nouns, it's evolved into a verb.

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm 
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88man wrote:
Il ya des passages où tout ce qu'on peut faire, c'est des conneries son chemin à travers elle la meilleure façon possible. In other words, there are passages where all one can do is to BS one's way through it as best as possible. Or at least until you sort it all out. Wow! I have to admit, that's one tough passage!

Thanks for this English lesson ! In French, the translation could be rather "Il y a des passages où l'on essaie de merder le moins possible..."

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Or, to put it succinctly, get the heck out of here :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Francois de Larrard wrote:
alf wrote:
Please do! I'd be delighted to look at it. No shame in rewriting a passage, several great pianists of the past did that all the time.

That's it, Alfonso. Hope it can help...
Good luck !


Thank you François. After seeing it, I believe that Chris has a point. Your rewriting makes the passage more manageable but destroys the unity of musical content and pianistic gesture, and the two come really together in this case. I mean, playing it as it is written compels you to get the right tone in the LH, because you are forced to hit the keys vertically with straight fingers, like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBFD7x8p_jE#t=04m56s or here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_vzDXXhUKs#t=05m26s. Other solutions, like eg this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqdE4JCSohk#t=06m04s may save your life but are musically less effective. The clue to that passage is probably to play the RH VERY lightly and take most of the low 16ths with the RH thumb (so to keep your RH as still as possibile), plus a lifetime practice I'm afraid :lol:. But mine are just words since I have never studied that moloch!

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Even though I'm completely ignorant about Spanish music (my first exposure to Albeniz happened in the last month :oops: - on a recital of Volodos where he amazed the audience by playing "La Vega"), I enjoyed your beautiful and excellent performances a lot! Your playing brought Spanish spirit to here, so I will probably surprised to see German people tomorrow outside of my home :lol: Good night, François!

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 2:06 pm 
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alf wrote:
Thank you François. After seeing it, I believe that Chris has a point. Your rewriting makes the passage more manageable but destroys the unity of musical content and pianistic gesture, and the two come really together in this case. I mean, playing it as it is written compels you to get the right tone in the LH, because you are forced to hit the keys vertically with straight fingers, like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBFD7x8p_jE#t=04m56s or here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_vzDXXhUKs#t=05m26s. Other solutions, like eg this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqdE4JCSohk#t=06m04s may save your life but are musically less effective. The clue to that passage is probably to play the RH VERY lightly and take most of the low 16ths with the RH thumb (so to keep your RH as still as possibile), plus a lifetime practice I'm afraid :lol:. But mine are just words since I have never studied that moloch!

Hello Alf,
I should go more often on YouTube. It is incredible how many different versions of great opus like this one can be found. Indeed some great pianists can manage this terrible section of Corpus Christi just playing it as it is written... I did not succeed, and this is why I tried this arrangement. Of course, if you can play the original, it is better ! Good luck,
hyenal wrote:
Even though I'm completely ignorant about Spanish music (my first exposure to Albeniz happened in the last month :oops: - on a recital of Volodos where he amazed the audience by playing "La Vega"), I enjoyed your beautiful and excellent performances a lot! Your playing brought Spanish spirit to here, so I will probably surprised to see German people tomorrow outside of my home :lol: Good night, François!

Thanks Hye-Jin ! You should listen the rest of Iberia by great pianists like Alicia de La Rocha, who is one of the icons in this field. 25 years ago I had the chance to see her in a recital (in Paris). She played the whole set in a single concert... What a memory !

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:18 pm 
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Francois de Larrard wrote:
Hello Alf,
I should go more often on YouTube. It is incredible how many different versions of great opus like this one can be found. Indeed some great pianists can manage this terrible section of Corpus Christi just playing it as it is written... I did not succeed, and this is why I tried this arrangement. Of course, if you can play the original, it is better ! Good luck,


François, we play what we love and just for the sake of it, so, again, no shame in taking shortcuts. Your playing and musical judgement is way above the average amateur, I didn't mean to criticize, only advance some thoughts about the music.

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Albeniz - Iberia, book #1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:55 pm 
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alf wrote:
François, we play what we love and just for the sake of it, so, again, no shame in taking shortcuts. Your playing and musical judgement is way above the average amateur, I didn't mean to criticize, only advance some thoughts about the music.

No problem, Alf, I was not shocked at all by your opinion about this arrangement. And I'm really keen to listen your version ! Regards,

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