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 Post subject: Beethoven, Sonata No.1 In F Minor Op.2 No.1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:51 am 
Beethoven, Sonata No.1 In F Minor Op.2 No.1

1- Allegro
2- Adagio
3- menuetto - allegretto
4- Prestissimo


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:31 am 
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Ah, this rarely performed first sonata dedicated to Haydn (to whom de dedicated a serie of his first Sonatas). Absolutely world class performance...may I say as usual...and there is nothing to niggle about. Just enjoy the musical experience.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:42 am 
Dear Robert,

I am Dedicating all my posted music to Piano Society, now I declare that Copyright is belong to Piano Society, feel free to do whatever you want.

Kind regards
Setrak Setrakian


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:07 pm 
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robert wrote:
Ah, this rarely performed first sonata dedicated to Haydn (to whom de dedicated a serie of his first Sonatas). Absolutely world class performance...may I say as usual...and there is nothing to niggle about. Just enjoy the musical experience.

To be honest, I must disagree here. I don't know if it is personal preference or not, but I don't think it can compete with your other recordings, Setrak. It's just a bit too robotic for my taste. Yes, the notes and the written dynamics are all there (Respect for this, of course! :) ). But I'm missing the many mysterious moments we often have in Beethoven's Sonatas. I know some people don't like extensive rubato with them, but I'm not on this side. And I'm missing the repeats, some of them are disturbing, but some are very important, I think.

I'm probably sounding too harsh for a humble amateur, but I couldn't shut up now because it's so late. :P :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:02 am 
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Chaotica wrote:
robert wrote:
Ah, this rarely performed first sonata dedicated to Haydn (to whom de dedicated a serie of his first Sonatas). Absolutely world class performance...may I say as usual...and there is nothing to niggle about. Just enjoy the musical experience.

To be honest, I must disagree here. I don't know if it is personal preference or not, but I don't think it can compete with your other recordings, Setrak. It's just a bit too robotic for my taste. Yes, the notes and the written dynamics are all there (Respect for this, of course! :) ). But I'm missing the many mysterious moments we often have in Beethoven's Sonatas. I know some people don't like extensive rubato with them, but I'm not on this side. And I'm missing the repeats, some of them are disturbing, but some are very important, I think.

I'm probably sounding too harsh for a humble amateur, but I couldn't shut up now because it's so late. :P :wink:

Well, I disagree with you Chaotica as one must keep in mind that all Beethoven's Sonatas are individual composition and should not be played the same way or manner. The first Sonatas are all dedicated to Haydn and that should be kept in mind when making the interpretation. Haydn's music is not dynamic and filled with rubato but rely on the musical content itself, the notes so to speak. When playing Haydn, one should just play the notes as they are and remember that the invention of the piano came in the later part of his life and he played most of the music on harpsichord. Also, Beethoven's music in general should not be played with a lot rubato as it is part of the classical period. So by playing more rhythmical stable and without too much dynamics, you probably make an interpretation that is closer to the idea Beethoven had when he composed it. A lot different than his more famous Sonatas as for example the Appassionata. With this in mind, Setrak's interpretation is actually very correct and in my ideas, an excellent interpretation of the young Beethoven.

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 Post subject: Beethoven Sonate op. 2/1
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:55 am 
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I think you are both right. Of course it is clear that Setrak is a very good pianist (especially in the first movement to hear without doubt: a first class performance, also I like this idea of Haydn style here)
But what is a little bit disturbing for me (in the second mouvement especially), is the sound of the electric piano. Each sound of this instrument starts with a little accent, then followed by a big diminuendo. That makes it extremly difficult for the player to do a real legato. So I would really prefer to hear this on a real piano, to enjoy it as much as the other "Setrak-recordings".


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Funny, I couldn't disagree with you more again, Robert. :P Okay, let's break it down.

Quote:
Well, I disagree with you Chaotica as one must keep in mind that all Beethoven's Sonatas are individual composition and should not be played the same way or manner.

Strange, I didn't say anything opposed to that. You want to make a clear distinction between the early and the late sonatas here, right?

Quote:
The first Sonatas are all dedicated to Haydn and that should be kept in mind when making the interpretation. Haydn's music is not dynamic and filled with rubato but rely on the musical content itself, the notes so to speak. When playing Haydn, one should just play the notes as they are and remember that the invention of the piano came in the later part of his life and he played most of the music on harpsichord.

I don't get your point. Beethoven dedicated these sonatas to Haydn because he was his pupil. That doesn't mean that any of Beethoven's works should be interpreted as it was one of Haydn. Beethoven even stated once - in his earlier years, of course - that he hadn't learned a thing from Haydn (I can't give you a source now, but Andras Schiff mentions this in his lectures on Beethoven's sonatas).

Besides that, I think that all movements of this F minor sonata except the second one were simply avantgarde stuff in 1795. This has nothing to do with Haydn's harpsichord music. I must admit that don't know Haydn's music very well, but look at the Prestissimo movement here: I for my part cannot see why one should play this just like Haydn or Mozart. Beethoven clearly makes use of all the new possibilities that the piano offered: dynamics, larger tone spectrum etc.

Quote:
With this in mind, Setrak's interpretation is actually very correct and in my ideas, an excellent interpretation of the young Beethoven.

It is a very good recording, that I respect, but I cannot like it as much as Setrak's recordings because it is always nearly 100% in time. This itself is an amazing achievement, but it isn't what a pianist with these abilities should be aiming for. It's just not very enjoyable, imho.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:50 am 
Dear all,
I think this RUBATO will never end,
I have 6 old LP recordings; each is played different way of Beethoven Sonata No.1


Alfred Brendel is playing same Sonata pure non rubato like machine,

Arthur Rubinstein, performing very large rubato and romantic like Chopin

Vladimir Horowitz is playing 1st and 3rd movements none rubato, 2nd movement playing 50% rubato

Vladimir Ashkenazy playing 50% to 50

Sviatoslav Teofilovich Richter is playing 30% rubato

Walter Gieseking plying none rubato

So, every one is free to perform as he like,
My old recordings was used many different pianos and studios and stage recordings, I never listen to my recordings after finishing from recordings, this is my style.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:13 am 
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You're right, Setrak.

We could narrow it down to personal preference, of course. But I still think discussing such issues is interesting and useful for all pianists who play Beethoven. Besides that, I think a listener should be allowed to say that he dislikes an interpretation because of certain things. I mean, Chris does it all the time, for example. :lol:

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