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 Post subject: How would you play this?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:21 pm 
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In the third measure from the end there is a tied quarter note A Natural followed by a half note A. Should it remain natural as I now play it? The next measure with the broken chord had a natural sign which is so small that you probably can't see in front of the A in the broken chord. Starting at the measure marked 3/4 I play A Natural through the end. Agree or disagree? I heard one pianist play an Ab half note. :?

By the way, I don't understand why the composer added the final measure as it is just a full rest. Wouldn't it sound the same either way?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:03 pm 
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I would play A natural. Because the tie of course stays the same, and the tied note would give precedent for the measure. And then of course, it's natural in the next measure. The A flat wouldn't necessarily sound bad, but I'm thinking it should be natural straight through.

And the last measure does seem sort of senseless. Maybe they just wanted an even number of measures or something? Maybe you should stay in position over the keyboard to finish the phrase out or something? Who knows....

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:31 pm 
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Yeah, I agree with Terez on both questions. It is probably an A natural and the last measure is kind of pointless.

By the way, who is the composer and what piece is this?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Glad to see you keeping on your Scriabin journey, John.

I'd be more inclined to play Ab (not because Terez would play the other way around :lol:), strictly speaking courtesy flats are not compulsory and you have Ab in the key signature. My Dover edition doesn't help.

chopinman0901 wrote:
By the way, who is the composer and what piece is this?


Scriabin's Valse Op.1

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 Post subject: ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Thanks for the input though I'm still not positive how I would play that. I thought I had decided to maintain the A natural throughout that part, but now....

Alf, do you really think it should be Ab, or are you joking? I don't take liberties with Scriabin's notation because he is sometimes purposely very strange. There are a couple of other spots in this Valse that sound almost like wrong notes, but at least in one case, I'm sure he intended what is written. I'm still inclined to think the A natural should be played. However, the jury is still out...Anyone? Anyone? (I'm reminding myself of "Ferris Beuler's Day Off.") Anyone? Anyone? :lol:

Alf, you're right again. You must be a "Scriabin expert." I didn't think anyone would recognize that Valse.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:34 pm 
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I just looked here http://www.piano.ru/scores/skriabin/skr-op.01.pdf and saw that it is indeed an A natural. I'm not sure of the edition, but it actually shows the natural.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:52 pm 
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chopinman0901 wrote:
I just looked here http://www.piano.ru/scores/skriabin/skr-op.01.pdf and saw that it is indeed an A natural. I'm not sure of the edition, but it actually shows the natural.


Let it be natural, then! :o

John, you see, I'm not a true Scriabin pundit... :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:53 pm 
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My experience with Scriabin tells me this: If it's an early work, and it sounds like an odd note, it's probably intentional... but I have never heard anything that sounds like a "wrong" note before.

I would assume that it would go to the A natural, because it carries over... but now I feel the urge to dig up my copy of the waltz and take a look at it again. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:21 am 
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I don't know this waltz, and am not a Scriabin pundit, but I'd go for the natural. The A flat does nopt seem to make sense - and early Scriabin usually makes sense even if late Scriabin doesn't :P
The bar at the end seems to make sense to me, he probably wants you to keep the pedal down for a full bar after you have lifted the final chord. Either that, or he did not want the audience to applaud too soon.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:49 am 
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techneut wrote:
I don't know this waltz, and am not a Scriabin pundit, but I'd go for the natural.


Yes, that is probably so. The late hour and a finger of Talisker clouded my judgement. Moreover there are similar passages along the Valse with long repeated notes and the coda might therefore simply follow that pattern.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:02 am 
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alf wrote:
I'd be more inclined to play Ab (not because Terez would play the other way around :lol:)

lol...I saw you on as I was going to bed earlier, and I had a sneaking premonition that you would come tell him to play Ab. :lol:

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:45 pm 
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[quote="demonic_advent"]My experience with Scriabin tells me this: If it's an early work, and it sounds like an odd note, it's probably intentional... but I have never heard anything that sounds like a "wrong" note before.

Sorry, I used an ambiguous adjective, "wrong." "Odd" is much better, Thanks. There are several spots in this early waltz where Scriabin uses his little surprises. At first I sometimes think they may be misprints, but now I've decided to go along with him. For example, the second D in measure #8 sounds like it should be Db. The other two times this little theme appears, he marks it with a superfluous flat symbol. I admit to playing Db in measure 8 for a while. Then I decided it was not a misprint since he later indicates that it should be Db.. Also he surprises us with the C natural in the sixth measure of the second page in my edition which is obviously intentional. He also omits the tie of the C's when the main theme returns on the second page. I assume that's also intentional on Scriabin's part, but I'm not certain. If it's intentional, I believe he is joking around.


There are also some G flats on the third page which sound a little odd to me.

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After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own.
-- Oscar Wilde, 1891


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:47 pm 
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[quote="demonic_advent"]My experience with Scriabin tells me this: If it's an early work, and it sounds like an odd note, it's probably intentional... but I have never heard anything that sounds like a "wrong" note before.

Sorry, I used an ambiguous adjective, "wrong." "Odd" is much better, Thanks. There are several spots in this early waltz where Scriabin uses his little surprises. At first I sometimes think they may be misprints, but now I've decided to go along with him. For example, the second D in measure #8 sounds like it should be Db. The other two times this theme appears, he marks it with a superfluous flat symbol. I admit to playing Db in measure 8 for a while. Then I decided it was not a misprint since he later indicates that it should be Db. Also he surprises us with the C natural in the sixth measure of the second page in my edition which is obviously intentional. He also omits the tie of the C's when the main theme returns on the second page. I assume that's also intentional on Scriabin's part, but I'm not certain. If it's intentional, I believe he is joking around.


There are also some G flats on the third page which sound a little odd to me.

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After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own.
-- Oscar Wilde, 1891


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:17 am 
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Hehehe... The great thing about those notes that might sound a bit off at first:

While it might take a while to figure out why he has some of those seemingly odd harmonic devices in his music... if they are played correctly, it can create the most beautiful effects imaginable.

That alone is what has caused Scriabin to "usurp" Rachmaninoff as my favorite composer.

But I digress...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:54 am 
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I think digression is okay once the OT is resolved. ;)

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