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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:25 am 
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Dunno, Pete...there seems to be some serious ambiguity as to whether EU copyright laws can actually be enforced on a Canadian organization.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:26 am 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
IMSLP is down and out for the count!!!!! :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Not quite yet. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:52 pm 
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You know, I'm kind of ashamed that when this happened, my first reaction was: Oh crap! I should've downloaded more stuff! :oops: But, it is sad to see such a great resource taken off the web.

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"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:01 pm 
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nathanscoleman wrote:
You know, I'm kind of ashamed that when this happened, my first reaction was: Oh crap! I should've downloaded more stuff! :oops:

I have to admit thinking exactly the same ... I bet we all did.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:31 pm 
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techneut wrote:
nathanscoleman wrote:
You know, I'm kind of ashamed that when this happened, my first reaction was: Oh crap! I should've downloaded more stuff! :oops:

I have to admit thinking exactly the same ... I bet we all did.


That was my first thought, too. At least I got all the Scarlatti. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:17 am 
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Actually, I have downloaded a LOT before they went down and also, it is still possible to download EVERYTHING. Why? Well, there is something as Google cache and they also cache PDF-files.

For example, run a google search at "Beethoven Sonatas IMSLP" and instead of clicking on the actual link, press the "Cached" instead and Volá! Everything is there. Even better, it is provided by Google which gives 100 times the speed of imslp when you download.

But hurry up! Google cache does not stay cached for more than a month!!!

Google is a great backup isn't it? ;) I have recovered many mistakes from their cache even for Piano Society. I have downloaded and backuped 702 scores so far and my plan is to make a backup for everything present on Piano Society. If they do not come up at all, we still have everything and can link it locally.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:17 am 
Hello Robert,

I'm trying to browse Google Cache but i found no way to get pdf files even doing the same search as you... Have you a sample URL?

Best Regards,
Sandor


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:57 pm 
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sandor wrote:
I'm trying to browse Google Cache but i found no way to get pdf files even doing the same search as you... Have you a sample URL?

It is easy to find the cached page. But the link for the pdf in that page obviously still points to the original location at http://imslp.org, which does not presently exist. If you click it, you will get the explanatory page rather than the pdf. Apparently IMSLP has blocked hotlinking, or else it would have made little sense to take the site down. And it seems like Google only caches the pages, not the targets of all files linked from that page. Which is probably intentional - even Google can't have the resources to back up the entire world ...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:09 am 
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I'm not so sure about that. :lol: They're just probably trying to figure out how to make money off of it...

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:11 am 
Quote:
They're just probably trying to figure out how to make money off of it...


It's probably true... The letter does not ask for shutdown of the site just for ip filtering on some music sheet...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:30 pm 
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I just thought that maybe PS should take the IMSLP logo off the site for now

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:57 am 
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techneut wrote:
sandor wrote:
I'm trying to browse Google Cache but i found no way to get pdf files even doing the same search as you... Have you a sample URL?

It is easy to find the cached page. But the link for the pdf in that page obviously still points to the original location at http://imslp.org, which does not presently exist. If you click it, you will get the explanatory page rather than the pdf. Apparently IMSLP has blocked hotlinking, or else it would have made little sense to take the site down. And it seems like Google only caches the pages, not the targets of all files linked from that page. Which is probably intentional - even Google can't have the resources to back up the entire world ...

Hm! That worked just the other day when I tested, I promise you that and I have copying a huge bunch of their sheets in case they will not show up again.

I could take down the logo...but still hope for them to re-establish their service.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:24 pm 
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robert wrote:
Hm! That worked just the other day when I tested, I promise you that and I have copying a huge bunch of their sheets in case they will not show up again.

I can only think that since then, they have disabled linking directly to files.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:29 am 
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Did anyone read this article (BBC)?

The day the music died

Internet law professor Michael Geist examines a legal row which could have grave implications for anyone and everyone serving an online audience.


In February 2006, a part-time Canadian music student established a modest, non-commercial website that used collaborative wiki tools, such as those used by Wikipedia, to create an online library of public domain musical scores.

Within a matter of months, the International Music Score Library Project (IMSLP) featured more than 1,000 musical scores for which the copyright had expired in Canada.

Within two years - without any funding, sponsorship or promotion - the site had become the largest public domain music score library on the internet, generating a million hits per day, featuring over 15,000 scores by over 1,000 composers, and adding 2,000 new scores each month.

In mid-October this year the IMSLP disappeared from the internet.

Universal Edition, an Austrian music publisher, retained a Canadian law firm to demand that the site block European users from accessing certain works and from adding new scores for which the copyright had not expired in Europe.

The company noted that while the music scores entered the public domain in Canada 50 years after a composer's death, Europe's copyright term is 20 years longer.

The legal demand led to many sleepless nights as the student struggled with the prospect of liability for activity that is perfectly lawful in Canada.

The site had been very careful about copyright compliance, establishing a review system by experienced administrators who would only post new music scores that were clearly in the Canadian public domain.

Notwithstanding those efforts, on 19 October, the law firm's stated deadline, the student took the world's best public domain music scores site offline.

While the site may resurface - at least one volunteer group has offered to host it - the case places the spotlight on the compliance challenges for websites facing competing legal requirements.

There is little doubt that the site was compliant with Canadian law.

Not only is there no obligation to block non-Canadian visitors, but the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that sites such as IMSLP are entitled to presume that they are being used in a lawful manner. The site would therefore not be subject to claims that it authorised infringement.

Further, while there have been some suggestions that the site also hosted works that were not in the Canadian public domain, Universal Edition never bothered to provide the IMSLP with a complete list of allegedly infringing works.

Although IMSLP is on safe ground under Canadian law, the European perspective on the issue is more complicated.

There is no question that some of the site's music scores would infringe European copyright law if sold or distributed in Europe. However, the IMSLP had no real or substantial connection - the defining standard for jurisdiction - with Europe.

Indeed, if Universal Edition were to file a lawsuit in Austria, it is entirely possible that the Austrian court would dismiss it on the grounds that it cannot assert jurisdiction over the Canadian-based site.

And even if it did assert jurisdiction, it is unlikely that a Canadian court would uphold the judgment.

This case is enormously important from a public-domain perspective.

If Universal Edition is correct, then the public domain becomes an offline concept, since posting works online would immediately result in the longest copyright term applying on a global basis.

Moreover, there are even broader implications for online businesses. According to Universal Edition, businesses must comply both with their local laws and with the requirements of any other jurisdiction where their site is accessible - in other words, the laws of virtually every country on earth.

It is safe to say that e-commerce would grind to a halt under that standard since few organisations can realistically comply with hundreds of foreign laws.

Thousands of music aficionados are rooting for the IMSLP in this dispute. They ought to be joined by anyone with an interest in a robust public domain and a viable e-commerce marketplace.

Michael Geist holds the Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, Faculty of Law. He can be reached at mgeist@uottawa.ca or online at www.michaelgeist.ca.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:15 am 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
Europe :roll: ...always complaining. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:40 am 
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juufa72 wrote:
Europe :roll: ...always complaining. :wink:


Is this a complaint? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:41 am 
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juufa72 wrote:
Europe :roll: ...always complaining. :wink:


It's the armpit hair and bad cologne. :lol: Makes people irritable. :D

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the one, the only ... Nathan Coleman
"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Ther are news about IMSLP...... http://imslp.on-wiki.net/


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:41 pm 
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It's good to know that he's working on it. And though I agree with his general sentiment on the subject...

Feldmahler wrote:
My friends, weep with me. Weep for the resistance of the classical music world to all efforts to save it. Weep for the robbery of culture by a few people at the expense of the society. Weep for our slow but steady decent into the darkness that is Nash equilibrium. Weep with me, my friends.


Don't you think he's getting a bit overdramatic? :lol:

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"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:46 pm 
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Yeah he is, but I do agree with him. Now even sheet music publishers are becoming greedy, leading to this sad event.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:20 am 
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I decided to put back all sheet music up on the site!

It looks a bit different than last time and the sheet music is now located under the recordings for each genre rather than as an extra column. There are several reasons I did so but mainly because we can make use of a module in the system to simply upload the scores, second; we could upload several versions of the same score, third; upload sheet music for which we do not have music yet.

Hope you enjoy it because it took me quite some time (began the work before Christmas). :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:50 am 
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Yayyyyyyyy! :D Thanks for the hard work, Robert.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:34 am 
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Robert,

I'd just like to say: you rock, dude!!!! 8) :D

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the one, the only ... Nathan Coleman
"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:49 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
Mr. Robert and or Mr. Techneut:


I see that there are a few .pdf files on the site but there are no recordings to the specific piece (Chopin waltzes for example).

Should I start up loading all of my sheet music even if the recording is not on the site? (Only the compositions which belong to current composers featured on the site. In another words, I won't be uploading Amy Beach or D'Indy pdf files because they are not on the site).

Your thoughts?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:27 pm 
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juufa72 wrote:
Mr. Robert and or Mr. Techneut:


I see that there are a few .pdf files on the site but there are no recordings to the specific piece (Chopin waltzes for example).

Should I start up loading all of my sheet music even if the recording is not on the site? (Only the compositions which belong to current composers featured on the site. In another words, I won't be uploading Amy Beach or D'Indy pdf files because they are not on the site).

Your thoughts?

I uploaded everything I had on Chopin because I think I have everything.

As we now do not link the sheets connected to a recording, I think you can upload all sheets you have that we have a composers->genre for. That is, of course, if you have the time and am willing to spend this time on Piano Society. I know how long it took for me to put back everything we once had.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:05 pm 
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I just recognized that there's not the original edition of the liszt mephisto waltz on the site. The Busoni transcription is hardly played, so I think it could be useful to replace it by the original version. Just an idea....

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